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As the smoke cleared, Jed Rothwell <[email protected]> mounted the barricade and roared out: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> As soon as you include the biosphere in the calculations, then all the >> individual interactions that occur within the biosphere are also >> included, by default (and there are trillions of them). And you can't >> leave the biosphere out, because the annual swings in CO2 >> concentration due to seasonal changes are still about 2-4 times larger >> than the annual CO2 increase due to fossil fuel consumption. > > Okay, but my point is that it does not matter where the CO2 comes from; > CO2 is CO2. It has the same effect on the atmosphere regardless of > origin; it mixes evenly throughout the atmosphere; and you can measure > the total amount. The interactions of the various chemicals in the > atmosphere are themselves simpler and smaller in number than the > interactions within living systems (such as protein folding). > > My other point is that the physics of the atmosphere must be well > understood because weather prediction is remarkably good these days. > > The point is well taken that bacteria or some other species may suddenly > release an unpredictably large amount of CO2 or some other chemical that > affects the atmosphere. That is unpredictable, and dangerous. However, > once that chemical enters the atmosphere the effects it will probably > have are not as complex or unpredictable as the circumstances that caused > the bacteria to release it in the first place. An effect originating in > complex phenomena may, in turn, cause a simple, predictable secondary > effect. What youse guys are trying to get a handle on is the fractal, chaotic -- dialectical -- nature of the whole thing. The Earth's climate and bacterial metabolism are operating on different, but self-similar scales which all feed back into each other and produce emergent behavior. And reaching any 'tipping point' means climbing out of the basin of whatever chaotic attractor our climate happens to be spinning around in phase space right now -- and falling down the other side into who-knows-what- state... - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *************************************** * In advance of the Revolution: * Get facts & get organized * * Fight the Man! * thru these sites & movements * ***** Critical endorsement only **** Most sites need donations ***** * http://www.buynothingchristmas.org Buy Nothing Christmas * * http://www.aflcio.com/corporateamerica Executive PayWatch * * [splitURL] /paywatch/ceou/database.cfm Database * * http://www.africaaction.org Africa Action * * http://www.msf.org Doctors Without Borders * * http://sweatshopwatch.org Sweatshop Watch * * http://www.maquilasolidarity.org Maquila Solidarity Network * ** Revealed Truth pales in comparison with the method of Science *** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm5VX4ACgkQXo3EtEYbt3H/dgCaAsHCmU2/URsOXTg3RxhIu8qz QOEAoIrrIjC/mAaBl3GMD91rTNIr3jak =7MjO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
