On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: > > If I try to boil down all the weird ideas that popped into my head, then > > here's the real question: do atoms experience significant Vanderwaals > > forces with nearby atoms of the same species, but not with atoms of > > different species? (Nearby, as in 50 nanometers, not molecular bond > > lengths.) > > Well, vanderwall includes so called London Forces, yes? I was under > the impression that those occured between dissimilar atoms, for > example, the london forces in water that cause its high viscosity and > surface tension occure between O in one atom and H in another.
Right, I've been labeling London force as "VanderWaals." So basically I'm asking whether the London force is stronger between atoms which have matched absorption lines. The simple example would be two large-N atoms of the same element having many matched lines, though I recall that mercury and O2 has a match. Hmmm, now that you say the above, isn't the temperature of liquid Argon, Neon, etc. determined by the London force? Mix liquid argon with neon in 1:1 mixture, so they start keeping each other apart, and see if the boiling point gets weird. But if the force is strong over great distances, then maybe we'd see little effect. How about vapor pressure over a liquid argon surface. If there was attraction, then perhaps in a vacuum chamber the argon pressure within 10nM of the liquid argon surface would be inexplicably high, or perhaps the condensation rate seen during transients in vapor pressure would be higher than that predicted purely from first principles, thermo stats. Here's one possible ref: Search keywords: Volokitin Persson Non-contact friction enhanced by resonant atoms http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/652-3.html > Seriously, things not given high importance always seem to be where > the breakthroughs and answers come from, dont they? Yeah, Vanderwaals force always seemed intriguing, only because everybody else is only fascinated by things like numerical solution of covalent bond physics. > > field must be radial and entirely contained inside the orbital? Well, > > what happens if experiments show otherwise. And also, what happens if > > another hydrogen atom is passing by at 30nM distance? > > My only question is how this tunneling creates an attraction. Is the > electron actually imparting a force moving the atoms closer together > while doing it? Photon tunneling is also called "magnetic field" and "electric field." How could tiny electric dipoles attract each other? Whether DC fields, or AC fields at the same frequency, I think the math is identical. But now add a ferroelectric environment: liquid environment of water dipoles. One might imagine that the ferroelectric liquid would behave as a shield. But perhaps at short length scales it doesn't? (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
