The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (2 of 4) - Interview Transcript March 5 2011
DISCLAIMER: Readers may agree or disagree with what has been transcribed, or how I went about assembling (and editing) the information for vortex-l. That is to be expected. In the end, please evaluate it using your own inner wisdom. Feel free to critique the contents for accuracy (or inaccuracies), contradictions, fallacies, or just to share a few personal impressions of your own. It is after all through discourse that we all learn and grow from our collectively shared experiences. TOPICS DISCUSSED IN MARCH 5 2011 TRANSCRIPT: * The initial January demonstration of the e-Cat... "Dirt and cheap!" * Cultural, political, and economic implications of the e-Cat... "rigid" * Is the Rossi Effect for real? ... "Oh, they did it." * How expensive was it... "It wasn't expensive" ... that's the whole point. It's cheap! * Historical facts concerning European/Mediterranean culture that helped invent the e-cat The art of making "alloys" * Speculation on the October public demonstration, and the unpredictability of cold fusion. Why cold fusion "...doesn't behave the same way all the time." * Black Light Power. How organized are they? "...politics and nonsense" * Rossi & Focardi personalities, how they work together. Their prior history. ..."We like them." * The process must be refined. "...can be dangerous to the environment if improperly handled." * What contaminants are in Rossi's nickel? ... zinc, calcium carbonate, lyme. * More Rossi & Focardi personality ..."They are cute together." ************************************************************** BEGIN EDITED TRANSCIPT: March 5, 2011 Each paragraph is prefixed by either SJ (Steven Johnson) or WD (The "Witch Doctor") (The channeler) followed by (MM:SS) ************************************************************** SJ 18:00 Back on January 14 of this year there were two Italians located in Bologna, Italy. An engineer and a retired professor, named Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi. Focardi is the professor, and Andrea Rossi is the engineer. They presented a unique public demonstration of what... I guess what you would call a Cold Fusion device... Photographs of this thing... it's an ungainly thing. It's utterly unimpressive... a four foot conglomeration wrapped in tin foil with a black hose attached to the top of it where steam came out... WD 18:42 Dirt and cheap! SJ 18:44 Yes. It was estimated that the device generated somewhere around 10 kilowatts of thermal heat during the demonstration. WD 18:52 What is the question. We know of the couple. WD 19:00 Seems that they are two professors at this point at the university of bologna. SJ 19:04 Well... here's the interesting thing about them... People knew about them for quite some time. It's not like they were a flash in the pan. Many suspected that sooner or later they were going to come out with something. Now, but, the way and the manner in which they are trying to preset this device has [initially] caused considerable concern among certain individuals within the Cold Fusion community. WD 19:25 There's always someone who will not be happy with the status ...with what is going on. The real issue with Cold Fusion, and we have said this before isn't the fact that you can or cannot do it. It is how to adapt the culture so that money can be made from it. SJ 19:44 yes. WD 19:45 And the culture is... in the infrastructure is not set up to support it. And until the politics have been straightened out the infrastructure is not particularly flexible. It is extremely rigid. There are many, many things set up to have fuel and [unintelligible word] from fossil fuels... SJ 20:01 ...Yes WD 20:02 The balance of relationships with the Middle East and the United States is set up around fossil fuels. SJ 20:08 Of course. WD 20:09 There [are] grave imbalance [that] could be caused if an alternative form of energy were introduced on the planet while it is still basically at war with itself. WD 20:22 So Cold Fusion really isn't the issue. You must find as a species and as a planet... you must find [alternative] forms of energy... and not futzing around with little cars whose entire bottoms are batteries. WD 20:38 Ok, These are just sort of... putting a little finger in the dyke while another hole opens up and spits at you. And this is where a lot of the energy is going... all over the directions... people are trying to find these... little substitutions. But it's not going to work. The whole species needs to alter its frame of reference about this. However, we must say that there are great many people in power who understand it. WD 21:01 They do know what they have to do. They do know what is at stake. And the...shifting of the balance of power and the ability to create a system that will function with the change is what has to come first. So, there's a great deal to iron out before you change the infrastructure. If you change... try to change the infrastructure it simply will get nowhere. It is like trying to get the whole planet on daylight savings time. It just won't do it. SJ 21:30 A comment I want to make here is that assuming that this is an accurate demonstration... I mean that they actually generated... WD 21:36 Oh, they did it. Actually, they didn't use the apparatus that they are showing you they did. They did it in another way. But this apparatus can do it. And in fact just about anybody can do it! WD 21:46 ...making it commercially viable is a whole 'nother story! SJ 21:49 Well, that's the 64 dollar question at this point... WD 21:52 Well, 64 million dollar... SJ 21:54 ...64 trillion dollar, actually. WD 21:56 Yes. SJ 21:58 Who are their financial backers? ... We're not sure... WD 22:05 Not that much, actually. WD 22:08 They didn't need it. SJ 22:08 Yes, well... WD 22:10 They have very nice pensions. SJ 22:12 Yeah, well hopefully that will help them get this thing done. They basically backed this... financially themselves I think. WD 22:18 Yes, that's correct. It's not... it's not an issue. It wasn't expensive. SJ 22:22 Well... WD 22:23 That's a common misconception also. WD 22:26 ...The point of Cold Fusion is that it is cheap. SJ 22:27 And the ingredients are cheap. I mean, it's basically powder nickel, hydrogen, a proprietary chemistry... which is cheap itself, we are told, although we don't know what it involves... WD 22:36 Yes, it is. SJ 22:38 And you just add some heat to it and suddenly... a chain reaction... WD 22:41 May we remind you... we will remind you of a strange historical fact. SJ 22:44 Ok WD 22:45 In the twelve hundreds, in the middle of the twelfth cen... in the thirteenth century... about 1256, Marko Polo went with his father and his uncle to a place called China. WD 22:57 ...and he learned about gun powder. SJ 22:59 Yes, WD 23:01 Ever since he came back to Venice... and Italy, and reintroduced spaghetti... [laughs] SJ 23:09 ... Yes, spaghetti. WD 23:11 We are being facetious here, but, things went... ideas and information went back and forth between the two parts of the globe... very freely. Much more so than people realize. And it took a long time, but there were, you know, there was exchange. Also, the crusades were going on, and so there was a great deal of... movement across Europe and into the Mediterranean... the far east part of the Mediterranean...to the Levantine area. So, what happens when you have this kind of exchange is that... and what happened, of course, in Italy was that the Italians became as expert as the Chinese had been in the manufacture of alloys. SJ 23:53 Alloys, ok... WD 23:54 Ok. And they began much better than when they were just Greece and Rome. Ok. They whole Air-[penifa? sp] became expert at alloys. The Japanese also became expert at certain alloys. Their steel and their swords became uncontested. Each area perfected different things. Chinese had known alloys for a long time. They didn't really have a need for beyond certain a certain point. SJ 24:21 ok. WD 24:22 But the Italians did and they became quite good at it. They were naturally at it, particularly the Phoenicians. SJ 24:28 ok WD 24:29 So, what you have when you get to professors in Bologna... SJ 24:34 [chuckle] Rossi & Focardi... WD 24:35 ...in Spain and Italy, you have a very long history of tinkering with metal compounds that goes back to the twelfth... 1256... somewhere in there. That goes back to the thirteenth century, if not a little bit before. SJ 24:49 So, it's sort of the same thing over again. WD 24:52 It is! It is exactly that! SJ 24:54 Ok. WD 24:56 And, you know, it's simply a matter of time to come up with the right combination... the right persistence, and they had the time. They had the persistence and they had the will. And it can be replicated. But... We will say again... but so what! The answer is not the alchemist stone. It isn't... the infrastructure cannot support a new invention. It's got to find a solution, but it also has to be able to support it. The government in the United States recent agreed that there would be no more incandescent light bulbs, and that's causing enough trouble. Just changing one piece of the infrastructure. One piece. WD 25:43 So, we would just point out to you that this has a lot to go, and it is more politics and strategy and implementation. It's similar to what happened with the internet. It took the internet nearly fifty years to get off the ground, and not because the internet wasn't the most fantastic thing that ever happened to human beings, because it is. SJ 26:01 I would certainly agree... I mean... This will take a very long time to pan out I would imagine. WD 26:10 It will happen. It will happen, we have no doubt because the planet has to survive... SJ 26:15 Agreed... whatever, and I think that's, how... Let's put it this way, they're going to... they claim that they are going to be doing a public demonstration in about 10 months from now...[October] WD 26:27 Well, there is a problem with this alloy and it is one of the things that has held up most of the people who have investigated it, and that is that the alloy doesn't behave the same way all the time. SJ 26:36 There is some unpredictability. Ok. WD 26:37 Well, it is that etheric. And it is pressure, and you can do exactly make, try to make exactly this ... let's put it in an analogy, "the same cake". But if one day you're trying to make the same cake at an altitude of 4000 miles [probably meant feet/meters] and another at sea level the cake will turn out differently. SJ 26:53 Right. WD 26:54 And this particular... excuse us, this particular alloy is subject to extremely small minute changes in temperature and pressure. SJ 27:03 Ok. WD 27:05 A weather system covering the planet could alter the results. SJ 27:10 Wow! Well... WD 27:12 Now, it's just the way that they are doing it. This isn't a permanent feature of the process. But it's in a very barbaric state! [laughs] to put it one way... to put it mildly. Anyway, and it happens to be vulnerable as a result... not refined yet, in other words. SJ 27:29 There is some concern that this process must be studied more thoroughly by scientists so that it's parameters can be better understood. WD 27:47 It will! SJ 27:47 Yeah, well there is great concern that there isn't that going on right now. WD 27:49 No, we also point out that it's inevitable that other people will invent the process. They'll find it. It's not... excuse us for saying this, it isn't rock science! SJ 27:59 Oh yeah, "rock" science! WD 28:00 It is simply an alloy, a process. Exactly like the forging of steel on Japanese swords. The making of bronze... it is a series of things that must be put together in certain form, maintained at a certain temperature, caused to interact, forged again over and over... eventually energy is released. SJ 28:21 What's fascinating about this from a very interesting point of view is that, you know, those folks over in Cranbury, New Jersey... Black Light Power... Those are folks I know about... You've given me the impression... You've looked at them rather skeptically. That's the impression you've given me, but what's fascinating about Black Light Power is... they have a process that also involves nickel powder, hydrogen, a proprietary chemistry, and you add heat, and suddenly... WD 28:48 ... Well what is interesting to us is that they've handled the ingredients but they haven't gotten from A to B. WD 28:54 And something's lacking, Steven. That's what we are saying it. You know, they have what they need and it's not happening. There's too much politics and nonsense over there. SJ 29:02 Ok. But they are close! It seems like they are close. I mean the fact that they are both using... WD 29:06 They have been close for seven years! SJ 29:09 [laugh] Some would say a lot longer than that! And that's the problem. WD 29:10 Yes, And if they find out what would happen to the company. There's a lot of things at stake in there... that they are not finding it. SJ 29:18 Yes. WD 29:19 And the gerbils run around in cages... We are just not impressed with them. SJ 29:22 Yes. WD 29:23 But we do think that other people can invent this. There are great many people who understand very thoroughly what's going on, and think it's highly probable. SJ 29:31 And what's fascinating to me is 99.9999% of the population is completely oblivious to the ramifications of what's... WD 29:39 Most people can't wire a light bulb either. SJ 29:42 Yes, well, that's true. WD 29:44 Electromagnetic spectrum. They don't understand that color and sound are the same thing. Well... you know... what do you expect. SJ 29:52 Yeah, yeah... I know... I certainly have my blinders too, at this point. WD 29:59 But, you know, it's very exciting. We will reiterate. It's very exciting. And particularly we like the Europeans [Rossi & Levi], tremendously. They are honest. They are sweet. And they are just plain good old garbage garage mechanics! SJ 30:13 [I laugh] Yeah! WD 30:14 And they... this is very endearing. They are approachable. If anything, they don't keep close enough records... but they do... they are scientists and... They're bureaucratic adjusters because they know how to survive in an academic environment. And they are good guys. We will say that with capital "G-G". Good guys. SJ 30:34 Yeah. You know, you're comment about them, their behavior whatever is not... out in the vortex-l discussion group... the comment you said about them is not all that different from what people have said about their behavior... the behavior of these two individuals. It's fascinating... it's utterly fascinating to watch. WD 30:54 They are very dear. We like them. SJ 30:55 Ok. WD 30:56 We've known them before. They've been around and done interesting things as a pair before... SJ 31:00 As a pair? Ok. WD 31:02 They... we will give you one instance. They were the Montgolfier brothers and invented hot air balloons. SJ 31:09 [I laugh] My wife would love to hear that. WD 31:12 And they are the pair of brothers! SJ 31:14 They are? WD 31:14 There were several other brothers and they were funded by their father's paper mills. WD 31:27 You'll get Montgolfier... water painting papers that is hallmarked... and then, they are THE kings of hot air balloons. You'll find them on the internet. That's who they were! They've been in this game before! WD 32:08 Frankly, it really doesn't matter who gets us off the ground. It really needs to get started somewhere. SJ 32:14 Yes. But how it gets started, and ... WD 32:15 ...and if they [Rossi & Focardi] are likeable, that is better. SJ 32:18 Yes, Oh, I definitely, whatever. We have some dire things happening, and we have some... WD 32:24 We'll say one thing about this. There is... if the process is not eventually refined and stabilized it can be highly toxic and it can enter the water supply... in through the ground water. And it can rain down. Ok. So, the process does need to be worked out. As we've said, it's extremely volatile... we don't mean this in terms of explosion. That's the wrong word. But it's extremely susceptible to changes in the barometric pressure as it is now. It's out in the open, so to speak, and the weather front coming in, or some change in pressure or... can affect it, and cause these problems with the results, which is what's made it so frustrating! SJ 33:08 They [Rossi] have had lab fires, I understand. WD 33:11 Well "volatile" we... like we said, it's combustible. "Volatile" is a carefully chosen word, but it's not quite right. Again, it's a touchy situation. It's a touchy process. WD 33:22 And it's so... it's so... part of the environment... that at some point it just has to be isolated from the environment and made to work properly, which it will. WD 33:34 You know, by putting it in a vacuum, so to speak. And making it happen there. But it's going to take a while for people to catch on to that... because they are still not... they don't understand why it's not so predictable, why it's not working so well. They haven't taken "outside the box" into consideration. If Richard Feynman were alive, he'd have seen it in a second. SJ 33:53 [chuckle] WD 33:54 Ok, but there isn't a Richard Feynman around to see it. SJ 33:57 Sadly... WD 33:58 Sadly. The only person who has come closest to understanding is Stephen Hawking, but he isn't quite enough "out of the box". SJ 34:06 Yes, well, he's got his own issues. SJ 34:08 And he's not... he's a mathematician and not a scientist. So there is a difference. But he has a grasp of it a little bit. And he understands it a little bit better than most of them. But that is what the problem is. And again, we'll just say that there is this aspect to it... and we see a couple of probabilities, here, that because it has this toxic aspect, that could slow its introduction down. But it is inevitable. It will be found. You'll never have... really Mars, space travel, and settling of space until you have it. You must have it. SJ 34:40 There is some concern that is actually produces radiation, that needs to... WD 34:44 That's our point. It produces a number of things... all of which are hazardous to the human being. SJ 34:48 Right. WD 34:48 But, you know, we will point out that Madam Curie got cancer because she discovered radioactivity. But radioactivity in itself is not toxic. You simply have to be careful to shield yourself from it and not give it... give yourself a lot of doses of it. SJ 35:01 Yes, the device did have lead shielding we understand. WD 35:05 The point is that at... when you have an electromagnetic wave of a certain length and certain frequency, and it's passing through human tissue for a long period of time it can disrupt the tissue. SJ 35:19 Yes. WD 35:20 Any process can disrupt something if it's done to excess. What happens with this... this particular process is that there are some byproducts that are released into the surrounding environment, and they create a stable moment and then energies ... output. And that particular moment... it can be toxic to the environment. And then you find the results haunting you, so to speak, in ten or twelve years... coming back through the environment and affecting the surroundings. So, there is some touchy aspects to this process, as we are saying it. It's isn't... It's incredibly susceptible to environmental conditions that people haven't even detected yet. It needs to be produced in isolation. The process needs to be refined. There are certain aspects in the powdering of the nickel in they are using that is also a problem. It's not refined enough. It is particles of other things in it. SJ 36:41 Nano-particles, or something like that? WD 36:16 Well... just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there... and it's dirt! SJ 36:20 Yes. Contamination. WD 36:22 Believe it not, there is some iron... Their some Ferrous oxide in there... and we are finding some zinc. Just one moment... We're scanning... just one moment. ... calcium carbonate, believe it or not. And a little bit of... just one moment... lyme. SJ 36:41 These are, I mean, additional ingredients that are being used, you mean. WD 36:45 They are not being used deliberately. They are just happening to be in the powdered nickel... SJ 36:48 S: As part of the contamination? WD 36:50 It's contaminating it. SJ 36:51 Ok. WD 36:51 They can't... know what it is. SJ 36:53 So, the more purified it is, particularly... WD 36:56 It needs to be... the process, as we said, is not literally refined enough. SJ 37:00 Yes. WD 37:02 Well... SJ 37:02 That's typical brand new inventions. You don't know what... WD 37:04 Exactly. It will get better. We can assure you that it will get better. SJ 37:09 I'm going to be watching this very closely! WD 37:11 Yes, you'll enjoy... again, these two fellows... they have been around a bit. SJ 37:17 So, this is nothing new for them. WD 37:19 No. The relationship is very old. They are cute together. WD 37:26 ... But they get along. They are quite compatible. SJ 37:30 That is my understanding. They are very good friends. WD 37:34 And not only that, you know, they each have different areas of knowledge and expertise that... they don't have any ego attachments to it. It's simply joins beautifully. It comes together quite good. Their wives, incidentally, come from the same group of ten that they are ... come from the same cadre. There's quite a compatibility in the whole group of them. ************************************************************** END OF EDITED TRANSCIPT ************************************************************** PERSONAL THOUGHTS AND ASSESSMENTS: This transcript was conducted in March; only a few months after the initial Rossi demonstration was conducted in Bologna, Italy. The conversation seemed to focus primarily on human aspects, personalities, politics, economic, and historical issues. They touched on historical references that seem to help explain how Rossi managed to stumble across this particular energy source. Europeans, have a tradition of making alloys, of meddling about in alchemical subjects. It was a tradition that started around the thirteenth century. Some of alloy technology was originally imported from China. It's as if Europeans, like Rossi, have acquired a stronger respect (an intuition) for the alchemical POV on things, much more than we in the United States care to entertain. Apparently, this helped Rossi stumble across the Rossi Effect. Clever monkey! There were hints that Black Light Power is mired down in a theory that may soon come back and haunt them - at least, that's my interpretation. I could be wrong. I've noticed in previous conversations with the Witch Doctor that they have never been particularly impressed with BLP, and their lack of enthusiasm continues to puzzle me. They made it clear that the current Rossi e-cat process is extremely primitive and that few understand the actual physics involved. However, any new technology when first introduced tends to look extremely primitive to successive generations. Fortunately, we as a species on this planet will eventually catch on and figure the physics out. It is imperative that we do if we wish to survive, if we seriously wish to explore space. Others will get involved Soon. They also warn that the process needs to be managed properly, contained, or shielded from the environment, that not doing so would release unwanted contamination into the environment, including the water table. I interpret this to mean that harmful radiation might be one of the adverse byproduct contaminants. There is more elaboration pertaining to the actual physics involved in the subsequent June 9 transcript. Next Post: The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (3 of 4) - Interview Transcript June 9 2011 Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
