At 08:54 PM 7/17/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <<mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.com>a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote:
However, "just right" in terms of exact full vaporization is
difficult to reach, from an engineering perspective . . .
Naa. It is a piece of cake. Just listen to the boiling and keep an
eye on the temperature. As soon as it overflows you have non-boiling
water coming through, and the temperature drops several degrees. It
would not be close to boiling if the flow is too fast for it to boil.
Jed, this is dead wrong. This is obvious. Suppose you have *almost*
full vaporization, not all the water is boiling, so water level in
the E-Cat will rise. Eventually, some will spill out. What is the
temperature of this water? It's the same temperature as the vapor
before! No change in temperature will occur.
Basically, if there is constant heat, flow rate can be varied over a
considerable range and the temperature will remain constant. As long
as the chamber doesn't run dry, temperature will be nailed to the
boiling point of water. And as long as the flow rate is low enough
that *some water boils*, the temperature will remain the same.
Jed, this is about the umpteenth time I've repeated this, and others
have repeated it as well. Boiling water regulates temperature, very
well. The temperature of boiling water doesn't change no matter how
fast I boil, it, as long as there is still water!
i.e., there is nothing about Lewan's report that guarantees that all
that water was vaporized.
Nothing except the facts that Lewan reported: water boils at 99 deg
C at location, and the outlet was hotter than that. Back pressure is
negligible with this device.
If this were true, Jed, then we'd not see exact regulation of the
temperature. Oddly, in one of the tests we do see temperature rise
above 100 a bit erratically. In that test, the outlet hose was
immersed in water, this could have created more back pressure....
As Valkonen points out, and as any elementary textbook shows, that's
all you need to know. Rossi is quite right about that. The
temperature, atmospheric pressure and the shape of the device
guarantee that nearly all the water was vaporized. People who do not
understand elementary physics will not agree, but they are wrong.
I have already said far too much on this subject.
That's correct. Jed, you shown enough to demonstrate that, for some
very odd reason, difficult for me to understand except that I know
this can happen to people when they are distracted, you don't
"understand elementary physics," because you are making statement
after statement that appears to contradict elementary physics, such
as this idea that if there is overflow water, the temperature of the
E-cat will drop.
Why would it drop? After all, water at boiling will carry away less
heat than steam at boiling.
In fact, the temperature will remain constant, until and unless there
is so much water flowing through that the heating can't raise it all
to boiling temperature. In the overflow scenarious I've described,
all the water is heating to the boiling point, but beause the heat
isn't quite enough to boil it all, some (eventually) overflows.
That's minimum overflow. It could actually be almost full overflow,
the entire water flow pouring out the hose, and as long as the
temperature were raised to the boiling point with just a smidgen more
heat, the temperature in the chimney would still be boiling, for the
pressure inside. (Notice that if there is overflow, the temperature
probe would be immersed in liquid water. You can't tell from
temperature if you are in water or in steam at equilibrium with
water. If there is any boiling at all, the water and the steam will
be at the same temperature.
The idea that the steam was hotter than boiling and was therefore dry
is based on an idea that the water is all being boiled as soon as it
enters the E-Cat cooling chamber, i.e., the chamber is at higher than
boiling temperature. Such a temperature would be very difficult to
control, it would rise substantially above boiling, not just a
fraction of a degree.... The very stable temperature seen in most of
the plots is a sure sign that this is wet steam or steam and water in
equilibrium.
