Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yup. Either Rossi is lying, or Defkalion is. It could not be more clear >> cut. >> > > Nope. That's just more assumption masquerading as proof. It's entirely > possible that Defkalion is testing Hyperions, and Rossi did not provide > them. Defkalion held a press conference with Rossi as the guest of honor. Their presentation and their White Paper said: "The technology is currently in its final stages of becoming an industrialized and commercially viable prototype. This forms the basis for a broad range of products under the commercial name Hyperion. The current range of products produce from 6 to 30 times more heat than the energy it takes to run the machine." http://www.defkalion-energy.com/White_Paper_DGT.pdf So Rossi knew they claim they are producing energy. If he did not provide them with the technology, why didn't he object to what they were saying? Now he says: "Not one single test, of the many demonstrations of the E-Cat technology held around the world, has ever been done in Greece and no E-Cat has ever been brought, produced, or assembled in the territory of the Ellenic Republic: so not only the technology is still fully owned by Andrea Rossi’s company, Leonardo Corporation, but it still remains a well preserved industrial secret." I do not see how this can be construed as anything but contradicting the White Paper. One side or the other is lying, or crazy. > What a damn circus. It is sad that cold fusion keeps ending up in >> controversy and fiascos. >> > > It's absolutely not surprising, Jed. I warned about allowing this to be > associated with the science of cold fusion. What is that supposed to mean? I did not "allow" this to be associated. It is associated! It is cold fusion, without a doubt. Or a gigantic scam I suppose. But I am not the gate keeper over what constitutes cold fusion, which is what it is, nor am I a police agency charged with preventing scams. Heck, Defkalion's White Paper claims it is not cold fusion. They want to avoid the association. But they cannot. Anyone can see it is cold fusion. None of this met scientific protocols for trusting new discoveries. > Skepticism was completely appropriate, hence my odd alliance with Joshua > Cude. > Skepticism is always appropriate, but what you and Cude have been exhibiting is not skepticism. It is mindless nit-picking and making excuses. For example, when the temperature difference reportedly stayed stable at 5 deg C for 18 hours, you claim that is not an adequate description and you demand time-sequenced data because the source of the reaction is unknown. That makes zero sense. If you want a time sequenced graph, get yourself some graph paper, write "5 deg C" on the left vertical scale, hours 1 through 18 on the horizontal scale, and then draw a flat line across it. Voila. You will then have as much information as time-sequenced data would give you. Obviously, if this is all a scam or insanity, with Levi in cahoots with the scam, then it makes no difference whether he gives us one number for the entire 18 hours and says it was stable, or whether he gives use 64,800 data points one for each second. Either one could as easily be fake. Additional detail proves nothing. I'd say it's time to start averting damage. It's time for people who support > cold fusion to jump on the skeptical bandwagon. It is not my job to avoid damage to Defkalion or Rossi. I have always been skeptical of all claims -- more than most people. What I do not do is invent contrived reasons and fantasies to reject data. Barring fraud, I accept that "a steady 5 deg C" is an adequate description of a temperature no matter what the source of that temperature is. Whether the source is an electric heating pad or a total mystery is 100% utterly and completely irrelevant, and when you say "not so" that is because you are scrambling to find an excuse to distance yourself from the claim. A pseudo-technical reason. If you don't believe it because Rossi is a dodgy person, go ahead and that. Just don't pretend you have some sophisticated technical reason. > It's not necessary to claim that Rossi was a fraud, though that's my > conclusion. It's not necessary to fall for the pseudo-skeptical argument > that Rossi's claims were impossible. They were not impossible. > > But they were, indeed, appearing to be stronger and more reliable than > anyone else had reported, by far. And skepticism about *that* was very > proper. Nonsense. They are no different from any other, just on a larger scale. Not that much larger, either. Fleischmann and Pons had dozens of runs of stable heat at ~100 W lasting up to 3 months. By the way, Terry Blanton's point that Defkalion may have invented their way around Rossi is well taken. Such things happen all the time, as he says. - Jed
