I'd like more information on this alleged heat pump which could heat water to 90 deg. C with a COP 6 in conditions that exist in a usual residential setting, such as an ambient air temperature of 10 deg. C.
The Carnot limit in these conditions is 4.5. Any practical heat pump in these conditions will have a COP of no more than half that. To heat water to 90 deg. C with a COP of 6 requires a cool sink that is no less than 60 deg. C. On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 9:51 AM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: > I stand corrected in this case. Of course I do not think that the ECAT is > some form of heat pump, but the total demonstrated effeciency is close to > that of a heat pump. Why buy a new technology that merely replaces a > reliable one currently on the market? By comparison, DGT suggests that > they demonstrate a device that far exceeds the performance of any form of > heat pump. > > I was mainly expressing the concern that it becomes increasingly possible > to muddy the water regarding performance as the level of gain drops. At > some level it becomes impossible to regenerate the electricity required to > make the device operate. I have not calculated that value, but I suspect > it would be between 3 and 6 at the output temperature of the ECAT(120 C) > that has been demonstrated. Perhaps some of the collective members have > performed that calculation and might show their figures. > > There is no heat pump theory requirement that prevents them from working > at the hundreds of degree temperature levels as far as I know. This is an > operating fluid characteristic. We use the standard fluids today in home > systems based upon our comfort levels and the atmosphere, not limited by > theory. I suspect that there are industrial applications that operate > at far higher temperature levels. It would be interesting for vort members > to make a list of the ones that they are aware of and their modes of > operation. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Sat, Mar 24, 2012 8:21 am > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Thane Heins continues with his bold claims > > David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: > > >> It does concern me that the ECAT performance is dangerously close to that >> of a high efficiency heat pump. >> > > No, it is not. It is light years away from the performance of a heat > pump. There is not the slightest chance it is a heat pump. The reasons are > simple: > > 1. A heat pump transfers heat from one place to another. One location > gets warm, and another close by gets cold to the exact same extent. There > is no doubt the Rossi device is producing kilowatt levels of heat. So, if > it is a heat pump, it has to be cooling down air, water or metal to the > same extent it heats up other water. It has to extract that heat from the > surroundings. If that were happening you would see water freeze. The metal > would be covered with a thick layer of frozen condensation. The > surroundings would be very cold to the touch. The intense cold would be as > obvious as the intense heat is. Nothing like that has been observed. The > device is small and the entire thing is hot. There is no flow of water that > goes in at room temperature and comes out icy cold. That scenario is > physically impossible. No heat pump that small could work that well in any > case. If Rossi has invented such a thing, it is as revolutionary as cold > fusion. > > 2. No heat pump can produce such high temperature difference. Some of > the best ones move ~6 times more heat than it takes to operate them, but > only when the temperature difference is slight; a few degrees at most. > Above 10 degrees efficiency falls off drastically. None can produce > temperatures in the hundreds of degrees. Again, if Rossi has devised a heat > pump that can do this, it is gigantic revolution in physics. > > - Jed > >
