Axil and Ed--Bob here-- Note that I assumed that electrons also were around when the 4 H reaction took place. The electrons react with the assembled system of particles to make neutrons as required to conserve spin in the reaction and to get to a low energy ground state consistent with an increase of entropy in the system.
Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Fusion by Pseudo-Particles You also need to account for the neutrons in such a process and explain how so many H can enter the nucleus. You have simply thrown the clay against the wall to see what sticks rather than creating a pot. Anyone can do this. We need to know how to make a pot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_capture Electron capture is a process in which a proton-rich nuclide absorbs an inner atomic electron, thereby changing a nuclear proton to a neutron and simultaneously causing the emission of an electron neutrino. Various photon emissions follow, as the energy of the atom falls to the ground state of the new nuclide. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 10:48 AM, Axil Axil wrote: Ed states: This happens in a chemical system, not in plasma where your concept would apply. Any separation of charge must take into account the surrounding electrons and atoms. A "vibration" has to take place in a local region having no connection to the chemical structure. That is the role of the Hydroton. Where is your "hydroton"? Axil: The NiH reactor has a localized region of plasma formation only. This reactor is a pulsed system in which plasma is produced periodically in a localized zone. Most of the volume of the reactor's hydrogen envelope is a chemical system where vigorous heat driven dipole vibration of hydrogen and other elements occur. This dipole activity happens in the micro particles an nano-particles arrogates that condense out of the plasma. But Axil, a lot of experience shows that this does not happen spontaneously in a chemical system. Yes, DGT applies a plasma but not to the active Ni, which is shielded in Ni foam. Rossi did not apply plasma initially, yet his e-Cat worked. Many other people have studied the Ni-H2 system without using applied plasma. Obviously, applied plasma is not required. I'm trying to understand what IS REQUIRED not what might be imagined. Spontaneous plasma formation simply does not happen in a chemical system. Ed states: I have no idea what this means and how it can happen. We know electrons can be separated from the atoms and can result in an electric current when voltage is applied. Where is the applied voltage in your case? What drives the charge separation, which requires energy? Where does the voltage gradient come from that is required to move the electrons? Without such answers, this description is just hand-waving. When two nanoparticles draw close together under the electrostatic attraction, they may come into contact at a limited connection. What causes electrostatic attraction? You must be assuming the particles are in a vacuum because if they have contact with a material they have no charge because the excess electrons have been conducted away. The electrons associated with the heat driven dipole motion will hit the dialectic hydrogen filled boundary between the nanoparticles where they will form a vortex current (hot spot). This is standard nanoplasmonic theory that has been experimentally demonstrated. This simply does not happen. I have no idea what you base this idea on. Particles in contact do not form a discharge at their contact. The particles are attached to each other by chemical interaction that does not cause an energy difference such that the surrounding H2 is changed in any way. Your citation has NO relationship to what you describe. The waves you cite are generated on surfaces by a applied electromagnetic field. In addition, these waves have very little energy and localize very little energy, with no ability to initiate a nuclear reaction. Nuclear interaction requires much more energy than such processes can supply. We know this because this energy can be measured and reactions occur ONLY when this energy is supplied. LENR obviously uses a different process, but one that you are not addressing. Notice in the citation, this idea is applied to photons, not to protons. The evanescent waves constrain the EMF (electrons and heat) closely to the surface of the nanoparticles and the space between them so when their wavelengths eventually match, they bind together in a pair. That is what a polariton is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_wave Ed states: Cooper pairs are known to form only at low temperature because they are very unstable. In addition, you are applying a concept used to describe electrons in superconductors to protons. What justification do you have for such a structure to form between protons at room temperature and above? How does a copper pair of p differ from H2? Axil: Piantelli shows a 6 MeV proton coming out of a nickel bar. This implies that a proton pair entered the nickel nucleus: one to produce the 6 MeV via fusion of nickel into copper and one proton to exit the nucleus to remove that energy from the nucleus. This is not implied. It is assumed. The observation can be explained several different ways. First of all, he did not determine this was a proton. This particle could be an alpha resulting from fragmentation of Ni, which is what I predict and can show fits many observations. How does causing a proton to react with Ni to make Cu result in energy if the proton comes right back out? Also, the large amount of iron reported in Rossi's ash assay, requires a reaction involving two protons. The abundance of light elements in the DGT ash assay requires fusion of multiple proton pairs with nickel. Fusion always produces a heavier element compared to the target. On a few occasions, your list shows fusion followed by fission to produce two fragments. I agree, much transmutation results from fusion-fission, but not all. You also need to account for the neutrons in such a process and explain how so many H can enter the nucleus. You have simply thrown the clay against the wall to see what sticks rather than creating a pot. Anyone can do this. We need to know how to make a pot. In my book, I propose a mechanism, the resulting nuclear reaction, why it results in transmutation and what transmutation products result. When compared to what is reported, the fit is good. You need to do the same with your idea. It is a safe assumption that pairing of protons is occurring. I see no reason for this assumption. Such pairs are only found in H2, which is not nuclear reactive. Ed states: I suggest you go the next step and calculate the elements formed, their decay modes, and whether the reaction is exothermic. And then see if the consequence is consistent with what is observed. Simply making unsupported imagined statements without going the next step is not very useful. Axil: 1H+1H+62Ni => 63Zn + n + 1.974 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 64Zn + 13.835 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 63Cu + 1H + 6.122 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 60Ni + 4He + 9.879 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 4He + 4He + 56Fe + 3.495 MeV <==== this one produces iron. 1H+1H+62Ni => 52Cr + 12C + 3.249 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 48Ti + 16O + 1.057 MeV 1H+1H+62Ni => 34S + 30Si + 2.197 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 65Ge + n + 10.750 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 66Ge + 24.037 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 63Ga + 3H + 4.007 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 64Ga + 2H + 8.108 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 65Ga + 1H + 17.778 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 61Zn + 5He + 7.372 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 62Zn + 4He + 21.156 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 63Zn + 3He + 9.692 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 59Cu + 7Li + 3.859 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 60Cu + 6Li + 6.667 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 61Cu + 5Li + 12.713 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 56Ni + 10Be + 3.707 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 57Ni + 9Be + 7.144 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 4He + 4He + 58Ni + 17.696 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 59Ni + 7Be + 7.795 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 60Ni + 6Be + 8.507 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 55Co + 11B + 7.769 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 56Co + 10B + 6.398 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 57Co + 9B + 9.338 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 52Fe + 14C + 7.721 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 53Fe + 13C + 10.230 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 54Fe + 12C + 18.662 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 55Fe + 11C + 9.239 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 56Fe + 10C + 7.316 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 51Mn + 15N + 10.550 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 52Mn + 14N + 10.252 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 53Mn + 13N + 11.752 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 54Mn + 12N + 0.627 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 48Cr + 18O + 6.010 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 49Cr + 17O + 8.549 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 50Cr + 16O + 17.406 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 51Cr + 15O + 11.003 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 52Cr + 14O + 9.819 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 47V + 19F + 5.899 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 48V + 18F + 6.011 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 49V + 17F + 8.415 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 50V + 16F + 0.951 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 44Ti + 22Ne + 7.983 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 45Ti + 21Ne + 7.147 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 46Ti + 20Ne + 13.575 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 47Ti + 19Ne + 5.591 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 48Ti + 18Ne + 5.580 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 41Sc + 25Na + 0.410 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 42Sc + 24Na + 2.949 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 43Sc + 23Na + 8.128 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 44Sc + 22Na + 5.408 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 45Sc + 21Na + 5.662 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 39Ca + 27Mg + 4.271 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 40Ca + 26Mg + 13.471 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 41Ca + 25Mg + 10.740 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 42Ca + 24Mg + 14.890 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 43Ca + 23Mg + 6.292 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 44Ca + 22Mg + 4.275 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 37K + 29Al + 5.425 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 38K + 28Al + 8.061 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 39K + 27Al + 13.413 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 40K + 26Al + 8.155 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 41K + 25Al + 6.885 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 34Ar + 32Si + 4.868 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 35Ar + 31Si + 8.406 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 36Ar + 30Si + 17.074 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 37Ar + 29Si + 15.252 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 38Ar + 28Si + 18.617 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 39Ar + 27Si + 8.036 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 40Ar + 26Si + 4.594 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 32Cl + 34P + 0.297 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 33Cl + 33P + 9.751 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 34Cl + 32P + 11.155 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 35Cl + 31P + 15.864 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 36Cl + 30P + 12.132 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 37Cl + 29P + 11.124 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 33S + 33S + 15.582 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 34S + 32S + 18.357 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 35S + 31S + 10.301 MeV 1H+1H+1H+1H+62Ni => 36S + 30S + 7.137 MeV The last 4 produce lighter elements. There are also similar reactions for the other Ni isotopes, and also for the daughter products of the initial reactions, e.g. :- 1H+1H+64Zn => 66Ge + 10.202 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 65Ga + 1H + 3.942 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 62Zn + 4He + 7.321 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 4He + 4He + 58Ni + 3.860 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 54Fe + 12C + 4.827 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 50Cr + 16O + 3.571 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 42Ca + 24Mg + 1.055 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 36Ar + 30Si + 3.239 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 37Ar + 29Si + 1.417 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 38Ar + 28Si + 4.782 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 35Cl + 31P + 2.029 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 33S + 33S + 1.746 MeV 1H+1H+64Zn => 34S + 32S + 4.522 MeV Ed states: I have no idea how a magnetic field "shines" on a boundary. This combination of words makes no sense to me. Axil: A polariton is a photon and an electron locked together in a pair. This pair orbits around a cavity on its edge. The spin of all polaritons are pointed such that the polariton ensemble produces a magnetic field at the center of the soliton perpendicular to the circular polariton current (whirlpool). This current is superconducting. When photons and electrons enter into the soliton, they don't exit. By the way, polariton solitons are used as a research tool to understand the behavior of astrophysical black holes. As best as I can tell, this description is based only on theory. We know that photons interact with electrons but just how this is done and the results are pure theory. You then assume that gamma rays can follow magnetic field lines, which is news to anyone who has studied gamma rays. LENR is obviously a new phenomenon. However, how gamma rays behave is not knew. Also, how magnetic fields behave is not new. Proposing behavior about gamma rays and magnetic fields that are way outside of experience does not help explain LENR. This is like explaining one mystery by another mystery until the explanation gets more unbelievable in proportion to the mystery squared. LENR can be explained using known behavior up to a certain critical point. That point needs to be clearly identified, which I have attempted to do. Once that point is identified, the new possibilities are very limited. Until this concept is accepted, discussions about hypothetical processes will make no progress and reach no agreement. People need to stop throwing the clay against the wall, agree on what a pot needs to look like, and get to work making the design. Ed Storms I believe that the magnetic field projections from the soliton screen the charge of all fermions in the nucleus including the nucleus and all protons in the neighborhood. When the nucleus and many di-protons pairs around it reorganizes, gamma energy travels back on the magnetic field lines from the soliton and the photons gain energy generating increase magnetic field strengths going forward. The magnetic fields produced by such solitons can get huge. The spin of the polariton produces the magnetic field in the same way that an iron magnet produces a magnetic field; that is through spin alignment except that it has only one pole. Charge movement does not produce a current. The magnetic field projects out of a polariton ring normal to it in one direction or the opposite direction depending on the spin orientation of the polariton.. On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: On Feb 10, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Axil Axil wrote: Thanks Ed My concept of the LENR reaction is a passive one. Yours is a more active one. Axil, I would say your concept uses one aspect of a theoretical concept while my concept involves the entire LENR process. According to my current way of thinking, dipole vibration maintains the separation of electron and proton in hydrogen. This happens in a chemical system, not in plasma where your concept would apply. Any separation of charge must take into account the surrounding electrons and atoms. A "vibration" has to take place in a local region having no connection to the chemical structure. That is the role of the Hydroton. Where is your "hydroton"? These separated electrons are then sequestered and redirected into the NAE (aka soliton) by topological discontinuity in the lattice and become part of the polariton ensemble inside the NAE. I have no idea what this means and how it can happen. We know electrons can be separated from the atoms and can result in an electric current when voltage is applied. Where is the applied voltage in your case? What drives the charge separation, which requires energy? Where does the voltage gradient come from that is required to move the electrons? Without such answers, this description is just hand-waving. The naked protons are then acted upon by the EMF based charge screening effects of the NAE. With their coulomb repulsion completely removed, these protons become attractive to each other and pair up based on their opposing spins to form cooper pairs. Cooper pairs are known to form only at low temperature because they are very unstable. In addition, you are applying a concept used to describe electrons in superconductors to protons. What justification do you have for such a structure to form between protons at room temperature and above? How does a copper pair of p differ from H2? The next step is a group fusion process where these multiple cooper pairs of protons fuse with a high Z element in a group fusion process in a zone of almost complete charge screening. This makes no sense. I have no idea what you are describing here. For example, 8 protons (4 cooper pairs) might fuse with a nickel atom to produce multiple light elements which might include multiple helium atoms. I suggest you go the next step and calculate the elements formed, their decay modes, and whether the reaction is exothermic. And then see if the consequence is consistent with what is observed. Simply making unsupported imagined statements without going the next step is not very useful. The charge screening comes from the NAE. The ions that are to be fused are all very close by the soliton and located in the solid boundaries of the lattice defect. The very strong magnetic field coming from the NAE is the coulomb barrier screening field. This magnetic field shines brightly on the solid boundaries of the NAE where complete screening of the coulomb barrier occurs. I have no idea how a magnetic field "shines" on a boundary. This combination of words makes no sense to me. Ed Storms On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Edmund Storms <stor...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: Axil, I hope you realize the Hydroton, which I propose allows the fusion reaction to take place and dissipates the energy, involves resonance of electrons coupled to hydrogen atoms. I'm describing the structure in which the polariton would operate. So far you have not supplied this essential feature in your concept. No matter which mechanism is proposed, it MUST operate in a collection of hydrogen nuclei that form by normal chemical processes. That structure is the Hydroton. Once this structure is identified, several consequences result and many behaviors can be explained. You might consider how your idea relates the entire mechanism I propose. Ed Storms On Feb 10, 2014, at 5:50 AM, Axil Axil wrote: Fusion by Pseudo-Particles Part 1 Past, Present and Future http://www.egely.hu/letoltes/Fusion-by-Pseudo-Particles-Part1.pdf I have come across a fellow traveler who can express the truth about the central role of the polariton in LENR and understands why this fact is so.
