Hi Bob, I agree that spin coupling is possible, even likely. However, what is missing from the discussion is the issue of "exclusivity." How does spin coupling suddenly become the only route to shed energy, especially when it never was more than a minor route in standard physics?
In short, just like with the Hagelstein hypothesis, we are not dealing just with merely an alternative route to shed high energy - but instead - to an exclusive alternative. Since nature prefers the simplest way - which is via radiation, any mention of exclusivity presents an almost insurmountable problem, especially if there is no model in standard nuclear physics. 10 watts of heat is trivial, but decidedly not trivial if that heat starts out as 10 watts of x-rays - which would be the case if there was nuclear gain which materialized as hot electrons and bremsstrahlung. It would seem that even if one part in a thousand escapes the hypothetical spin coupling channel, then the consequences are so severe as to void the entire hypothesis. The risk is highly skewed. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Cook Jones-- As I have suggested in the past, spin coupling of nucleons with electrons or other nucleons may not involve the gammas and x-rays you fear must occur in nuclear transitions. High isomeric spin states can involve high energies above a ground energy state of a nucleus. Transitions to lower energy states should not involve gammas or x-rays only distribution/conservation of angular momentum. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" Fran, The good-news bad-news problem with down-conversion of x-rays, as well as the other hypotheses for the absence of high energy gamma radiation, including that of Hagelstein, is that yes, they could possibly operate some of the time, or even most of the time. The mechanism may sound logical, on paper and at first glance. But nature "prefers" radiation, as a general rule. The bad-news problem with any such naïve suggestion, is that the would need to operate all of time without exception. We are talking about deadly radiation requiring thick plates of lead to shield normally, and we know that nature already favors the preferred pathway - radiation. Think about a dental x-ray and the elaborate precautions taken there. That radiation is puny by comparison, both in its low power (15 keV) and in miniscule intensity (duration) which is a few nanoseconds. LENR, such as the recent Mizuno experiment, at many watts for many days, would be trillions of times more intense, and no shielding except from the reactor. A lapse of a millisecond and we have radiation burns and cancer, or worse. In short - instead of the single miracle of the nuclear reaction itself, you would also need the larger miracle of a brand new way to hide the high energy radiation, plus the further miracle that the new mechanism operates without fail. The theorist would seem to be better off to propose an underlying reaction which can be shielded by the reactor (few keV range or less). In fact, it is arguable that any hypothetical radiation shielding mechanism, if it existed, would be as valuable or more valuable than LENR itself, since it would permit the use of subcritical fission with desktop accelerators - say in automobiles. From: Roarty, Francis X Could a relativistic component as suggested by Naudts possibly disguise/dilate/down convert Bremsstahlung? _____________________________________________ From: Jones Beene This is somewhat similar to the "lochon" explanation: "Lochon Catalyzed D-D Fusion in Deuterated Palladium in the Solid State" by Sinha and Meulenberg Lochons are hypothesized to be electron pairs which can form on a deuteron to give D- (which is a bosonic ion) in Palladium Deuteride. Supposedly, lochons which are close - similar to a DDL, so that they then catalyze D-D fusion, resulting in a type of internal conversion leading to the formation of He plus production of lots of energy which is carried by the alpha and the ejected electron-pair. Problem is - the alpha is slow and the electrons are very fast - so that with this and other forms of IC, the ejected electron(s) is extremely energetic and the bremsstrahlung from it would be just as obvious as gamma rays, if not more so. From: MarkI-ZeroPoint A Fellow Friend of Fringe Facts sent me to gander at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_isomer And here is what caught my attention that might apply to LENR/CF: ----------------------- Internal conversion Metastable isomers may also decay by internal conversion - ***a process in which the energy of nuclear de-excitation is NOT emitted as a gamma ray***, but instead used to accelerate one of the inner electrons of the atom, so that it leaves at high speed and energy. This result occurs because inner atomic electrons penetrate the nucleus, where they are subject to the intense electric fields which result when the protons of the nucleus re-arrange in a different way. In nuclei which are far from stability in energy, still other decay modes are known. ----------------------- An added bonus was this statement which supports my model for electrons as dipole-like oscillations which either skirt, and/or pass thru the nucleus... "...because inner atomic electrons penetrate the nucleus" I guess it's going to take a 2x4 to the head to get the science mainstream's attention... or, to interrupt their mesmerized state brought on by indoctrination to the current paradigm. -mark iverson
