On 01/15/2017 09:36 AM, Xen wrote:
> Dick Hollenbeck schreef op 12-01-2017 23:00:
>
>> Anyone a CMake guru out there?
>
> I think you should keep things calm and not change for the sake of
> change.
>
> Stability is important. Being dependable, being able to depend on the
> well known is important.
>
> Stop messing with the status quo to no avail. It is good the way it is,
> you know. The more chaos you put in, the more chaos you get out.
>
> I should know :p.
>
> That's all I can say here.
You haven't said anything; except that you do not understand that software
development is
change and growth.
I am a software developer. I ran the open source KiCad project for 7 years,
taking it
from an unusable tar ball to team of thousands of users and over 500 developers
on the
developer's mailing list. That mailing list is up even more now.
By contrast, there has not been one posting on a vuurmuur developer's mailing
list in over
2 years:
https://sourceforge.net/p/vuurmuur/mailman/vuurmuur-devel/
I also wrote much of the software that controls the largest power plants in the
USA. And
I've owned software company for 34 years.
Victor recently asked if anyone wanted to help him. That is a tremendous first
step in
developing a culture beyond one individual. Then, however, the door was shut.
When asked
specifically if he would accept a contribution (before time was spent on it) he
failed to
answer in the affirmative. This is a mistake. An hour reading about CMake and
then an
affirmative answer might have gotten a contribution from me. Sometimes you
have to
compromise as a project leader, just to grow culture and spirit within the
project, to
grow the life in the project. I hand picked my project leader replacement in
the KiCad
project for excellence in this very important personality trait.
CMake is not chaos. CMake is an improvement to the project, and would be a
requirement of
any open source project for which I would ever volunteer for again.
I do indeed have the expertise to create a CMake build system, and could do it
in 120
minutes. However my question was very purposeful. I wanted to know how
healthy this
project is, and to get a read on what the depth of interest in it is, so I
could measure
the likely return on any investment that I might make in its development or use.
There are often a number of young people who lurk on a development mailing list
that have
development capabilities and who want to get more involved. This was me
throwing bait
into a pond, seeing how much life was in the water. 120 minutes for me is
expensive, by
contrast 120 minutes for a junior in college is less than expensive, it is an
opportunity
to add something to his/her resume.
>
> I mean you suggest a solution but then you require a "guru" to actually
> implement it for you. That doesn't sound as easy as you make it appear
> to be. That suggests there is going to be a lot of effort required to
> make it reasonably stable, get everyone (including the main developer)
> acquainted etc. etc. etc. and for what benefit?
>
> It's just sake for the sake of change, that's all.
I do not agree. Autotools is crap. Nobody should be using at this point.
A large number of new projects and many existing projects are choosing CMake
over
autotools, it is not a difficult decision to make, nor to see the superiority.
Often a project will keep two build systems in play until a level of comfort is
established on the newer one.
But at this point I think it is moot. I think Victor was making a half baked
attempt at
convincing even himself that the project warranted any more time of his own
time. Open
source can cause burn out, and the rewards are very very thin, I empathize.
Even after a project reaches critical mass with multiple talented contributors,
that
often becomes a shouting match.
I wish you all good luck with this project.
Please forgive me for trying to offer some help.
Dick
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