Xen schreef op 16-01-2017 19:32: > Dick Hollenbeck schreef op 16-01-2017 18:16: > >> You haven't said anything; except that you do not understand that >> software development is >> change and growth. > > All I hear is someone bragging, that doesn't make you right. > > Anyway, I didn't come here to pick a fight (even if maybe I did) and I > will leave it at that. > > My apologies for reading the rest of your message. Cya.
I really wanted to say here as well that I am just a nameless person and if you are going to take some issue you have with insolence on my part out on the project, that is just bad taste as far as I'm concerned. I am also going to say after reading the full rest of your message that I don't see you intending to contribute anything at all. You message to see if any fish would bite is fallacious. Of course you could be right that "Victor" here has no intent to contribute his own time but how can you say, it is the first time he did something in ages (perhaps) and that is no reason to criticise or break down. I am not intending to be speaking here as if I have right of say about anything. But. Let's just say the only time I have thus far forked a project on GitHub and tried to push some changes back to the main guy, but the main guy wanted to quit, and there was no one to replace him. I told people that I might be willing to maintain the thing (it was not a large thing) but I would certainly not do anything new. Keep it running and that's all. The _first_ thing that happened was someone first applauding me and then, after he applauded me for being realistic about my own time, the first thing he did was to suggest some kind of new automated test system that we could hook onto. This was a tiny project. I had no interest in doing anything more than ensuring its survival in the sense of its mundane operation, so to speak. Infrastructural advancements were not only completely unnecessary, as well as out of place for a system this small, it definitely fell under the banner of "something new". So there were at least 3 things that were wrong with it: - I didn't have time - I told them I didn't have time. - I didn't have time. But also: - The project didn't need it - It was a small python file downloading stuff off the web that you could test for its proper operation in an hour of use and anyone using it would quickly run into mostly all the issues there could be. - I didn't even like the automated test system (it was a service offered on the web). Now for anyone intending to make the project grow, I guess it was a good idea. But this person clearly wanted ME to do it. I had no such intent, I had told them this, he had accepted it, and yet he still asked. As the first thing he did. "Change and growth". That's really cute, but the man-hours have to come from somewhere right? It's just insulting to say basically that this project is crap without your help. The greatest lie in the software world is that "I'm just going to do this small thing" and then it explodes into a 3-week exercise. It's like opening up the proverbial can of worms. Containing what you do is like the number one survival skill as far as I am concerned. Every new thing may explode into hours, weeks, months of your time. It is NEVER just 120 minutes. That's just my experience. Maybe I am an anomaly, but I think not really. I thought your message was strange, first you completely outline what the CMake file had to be, then you ask for others to do it. That is just weird and it turned out to be insincere or maybe we should say, you should say... well I would call it disingenuous. It's rather belittling those juniors, don't you think? There is no one on this list. If there had been you would have seen more user messages I think. For this reason, if you don't disturb it, it can also not die. I think it is a nice tool with its shortcomings, but I also do not have time (or ability, in my life right now) to do anything for it. Maybe I am an anomaly but if I wanted to you would always hear it :p. Mostly I would either propose it or ask if it was possible, etc. But I'm not acquainted and I'm limited to.... well whatever. I think it was a good sign of life the message that Victor sent and I was actually very pleased or happy or charmed or content or whatever about it. I thought it was a nice thing. Now you're saying it was a bad thing. Again not trying to belittle anyone here. But the "this needs to happen" mindset is wrong. "Nothing needs to happen this minute, right now." I mean just to take the average computer game example. "We need a healer." No one responds. You win the game anyway. Clearly you didn't need a healer, cause you won. If your goal is to put fire into this project, the result however is that you call it worthless. What goes up, must come down. Sometimes it is better to stay at ground level, you know. If you didn't disturb it with expectations in the "up" direction, you would also not need to crack it down with condemnation in the "down" direction. Then you would not need to judge anything and just be happy Victor was happy about putting in some work into it. I think it was reason for applause, not criticism. Yet for you it is not _good enough_. And then after offering "help" you immediately kick out the legs from under it. Something this short-lived can never be any good and can only be likened to a straw fire: quick to start burning, and intense glow, but it dies equally as soon. So your "disappointment" good sir is nothing but an expectation that wasn't met. And sometimes we say "Let me be (in peace) and I'm good with that". I fought Victor's message was hopeful I just hadn't (and haven't really) looked into it yet. But it was fair enough and a good sign for something that hadn't seen any work for perhaps a long time or even a very long time? Anyway, even if that disappoints me, and even if I were happy about certain things changing, you sometimes have to be content with what you've got, you know. I think any real project must be carried by the people that really feel they own it, that it is their creation. Something that belongs to you. Drawing in alien developers, while perhaps commendable or laudable, is not useful if the guy that built it cannot be there for it. You say Victor is not interested, well I say this person is not interested in disturbance, that's all. Quick to come and quick to leave is not useful. Quick to burn and quick to die is not useful. People want someone who will stick around for the long run. Maybe I'm not that person, but Victor himself could be, you know. And he was just happy about his improvements and then you break it down, you burn it down. That's not helpful and that's not wise. That's all I can say, no matter how much you can brag about your achievements here. Goodbye. And if you did intend to offer more long-lasting help, I really do think you should tone down because people don't want help from the high and mighty that lower themselves to spend their priceless time on the perhaps perhaps-not worthy. I mean, should we bow down and offer blessings as you shower us with your divine guidance? I mean, in Dutch we say "Leave everyone in their own worth". Just because you are a successful entrepeneur as you say you are, doesn't mean other people should be grateful from every crumb of bread that falls from your direction, you know. Some people may want your autograph or save your footprints forever ;-). Others may not lol. Anyway, do what you like, you probably didn't read this entire message anyway, have fun, and have a good time. Cya. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Vuurmuur-users mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vuurmuur-users
