Hi Neil Your email must have taken a while to compose - many thanks for taking the time for me, much appreciated.
I can see I have done a lot of what you did initially with the two computers. I try just to use the main one to download the emails and sort, but often it is not convenient as have a lot of the information I need on the other computer. I am now adding new mailboxes all the time on the main computer as I am unable to search for anything on it and emails are easier to find if in their own mailboxes. Have no idea why that stopped a few months ago but think I need to re-install the OS again, but hoping the new computer will be on the market soon, I’ve not gone down that path as yet - what with backing up my hard drive etc. I will keep your email handy as I will need to refer back to this when making my decision on what option to take. Thanks again for the time you have given me on this one. Cheers Jewels > On 23 Nov 2019, at 2:31 PM, Neil Houghton <n...@possumology.com> wrote: > > Hi Jewels, > > Glad you have at least got your email working again. Yes, it is worth taking > your time to work out a good email set-up before jumping in and changing > things. I am by no means an expert in email systems except what I have had to > learn as I went along - guided as we all have been by the generous > contributions of others on the list - Daniel & Ronni obviously come to mind > here. > > Having said that, I am a great believer in trying to work out how things work > and, sometimes more importantly, how they go wrong! > > A couple more thoughts/comments: > > > In your reply to Daniel you said "I will hang on until I get my new MacPro, > whenever they become available and will probably have the two machines set up > as POP." - I have found this to be a workable solution in the past PROVIDED > you have a plan as to how/when each computer downloads messages from the > server and how/when messages are deleted from the server. It seem to me > there are two basic approaches to this: > > • You have a designated "main" email computer which downloads all mail > and on which you sort/organise all your saved mail and the other computer(s) > are secondary and only used to "catch up" on new emails when you are away > from your "main" computer - this is the approach which I used and so all the > secondary computers were set to "leave a copy of each message on the server" > and "Delete copies from the server - Never" whilst on the primary computer > "leave a copy of each message on the server" was unselected - so the messages > were downloaded and immediately cleared from the server. This used to work > fine until I was overseas for a while, using the secondary computer, and > found that the server quota was being exceeded. > • You want both/all computers to be "equals" and have all emails on them > - in which case you would set all computers to "leave a copy of each message > on the server" and then set a suitable period to delete copies from the > server (you mentioned 1 month) - your main considerations here would be: > i) Make sure each computer accesses the mail server frequently enough to > catch messages before they are deleted > ii) Make sure that any months worth of email can be accommodated by your > server mails quota (this ruled out this approach for me) > iii) Do all your email sorting/filing separately, but consistently on all > computers (I would have found this challenging!) > > > > > You say " On checking, it appears to change an IMAP to a POP account is > rather laborious and difficult." - I suppose it depends how you look at it. > The first thing when talking about "email accounts" is to distinguish between > the server side setup and the email client. You actual email "account" - as > in the email address is just that - an address that points to your email > account on your email server. POP and IMAP are just 2 different ways to > access that account with 2 different rationales - the POP rationale assumes > that you will download all your emails and then manage them on your computer > whilst the IMAP rationale assumes that all your emails are retained, sorted > and generally managed on the server - your computer email client (or webmail > session) is just the gateway to do this. > > You can think of IMAP as an email equivalent to Dropbox - it keeps everything > in sync between computers/devices - actions performed on one device are > synced to the cloud (your email server) and then on to the next device which > connects to (syncs with) your account. > > You have already experienced some of the problems associated with mixing POP > and IMAP access across different computers however changing from POP to IMAP > need not be "rather laborious and difficult." provided one has a clear plan > of action. I will give you a few thoughts based on my own experience. I > actually use MS Outlook as my email client rather than OSX Mail - so some > details/procedures may be slightly different, but the principles are the same. > > • In your email client you do not "change" an account from POP to IMAP, > you create a new IMAP account and then delete the old POP account. > • If you use email "rules" to sort and organise your email (I have > multiple email accounts and use rules a lot) be aware that your old POP rules > will no longer work if/when the POP account is deleted. You can set-up new > IMAP client rules - but they will only be effective when the computer that > the rules are set-up on is accessing the email server. The other option is to > set-up Server rules - which work on the emails as they arrive at the server, > irrespective of whether any computer client is actually accessing the > account. This way you do not need to worry about setting up the same client > rules on different computers. > * Deleting the POP account can result in the loss of emails associated > with that account - that is emails which have been downloaded to your > computer and are no longer on the server - so you need to ensure that you > have already filed or otherwise saved these emails beforehand. > • You can actually have both an IMAP account and a POP account > simultaneously accessing the mail server - though, for obvious reasons, this > would not be a normal setup! > • As an interim measure, I found that having both IMAP account and a POP > account simultaneously active in the email client could be a convenient > changeover strategy - eg: > 1) You already have the POP account setup and emails stored "on my > computer" - temporarily change the account settings to "leave a copy of each > message on the server" and "Delete copies from the server - Never" and > disable the automatic send and receive schedule - this has effectively > disabled the POP account without deleting it. You should probably ensure that > this has been done on all devices set-up with POP accounts > 2) Set-up a new IMAP account to access the same email account. Set-up all > your folders/filing on the email server using this IMAP account. You could > also set-up server rules at this point. > 3) Work through all your "on my computer" emails to ensure they are > suitably filed/archived - eg to your new IMAP folders. > 4) When you are happy that your new IMAP account is working fine and all > your emails have been suitably filed/archived, you can delete the POP account > from your email client. > 5) If you have any old POP email rules you can now delete these as they > are no longer effective. > > You mention that you have a good email backup software - Mailer Archiver X - > so I suppose you could omit step 3 and instead use your email archive to > retrieve any emails removed when you delete the POP account - whatever works > best for you and your way of thinking/working - we are all different here!! > > Just my thoughts. HTH > > > Cheers > > > Neil > -- > Neil R. Houghton > Albany, Western Australia > Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 > Email: n...@possumology.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <wamug.org.au-wamug-boun...@lists.wamug.org.au> on behalf of Julie > Bedford <jew...@iinet.net.au> > Reply-To: WAMUG <wamug@wamug.org.au> > Date: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 at 23:58 > To: WAMUG <wamug@wamug.org.au> > Subject: Re: MAIL BOX > > Hi Neil, > > Thanks for your reply Neil. Yes, I’ve come to the same conclusion in > regards to having POP and IMAP on the same network. On checking, it appears > to change an IMAP to a POP account is rather laborious and difficult. I’ve > always used the POP and prefer this option, as I look upon the IMAP to be > similar to a Cloud storage system. Now that I have a better understanding of > these, I am sure I’ll survive until I manage to purchase the new MacPro and > then decide what to do. I do understand what Daniel says though and can see > why most prefer this option. > > I checked my quota on the iinet website earlier and I’m over 1900mb of > 1000mb. A bit of a mystery as I do not have that many stored on the server. > After speaking with iinet, they think their server is having problems and > should be able to clean out my mail tomorrow. A friend today had a look at > my system and changed the outgoing port, which actually returned to it’s > original number but the good thing is, my email is now working ? I have no > answers for this miraculous recovery :) The only out of the ordinary thing I > did in my mail recently was to delete about 1gb worth of emails, but that > really should not have affected the mail set up or loading up my iinet quota. > > Yes, I understand your reasoning behind obtaining personal domains, I had > thought of the doing the same in the past. Everything was so much cheaper > back then, but of course now it is not the case. I do have a good email > backup software - Mailer Archiver X - so I guess I could use that to fall > back on if all else fails. > > If nothing else, I’ve learnt from this exercise. > > Thanks again Neil > > Jewels >> On 20 Nov 2019, at 5:46 PM, Neil Houghton <n...@possumology.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Jewels, >> >> I think that, as Daniel says, your basic problem is down to accessing this >> email account via POP on one computer and via IMAP on the other. You CAN do >> this (as you are) but, to avoid losing emails, you really need to have a >> strategy that considers where/how the emails are stored and if/when they get >> downloaded and/or deleted from the server. >> >> As Daniel says, the simplest and cleanest email setup nowadays is just to >> use IMAP on all machines and have all your messages organised in folders on >> the server - that way your emails and folder organisation looks the same >> whatever device you use to access your email. >> >> The main problem with this approach is if you save a lot of emails and your >> email provider has quotas on email storage which you exceed at some point. >> >> I guess I am well familiar with this since, back in the day, I purchased >> personal domains for my wife & I so that we could have our own email >> addresses - without having to worry about losing our email addresses if/when >> we changed ISPs and, since we were only using these for emails rather than >> setting up websites, I just went with a free web hosting account. >> >> Now, I have to say that the set-up works fine and does all we wanted EXCEPT >> that our storage & bandwidth quotas are very low ( I'm not complaining - we >> pay $0 for this!). My original strategy was to set-up all accounts as POP on >> all machines then designate our primary personal computers to download from >> the server and all secondary devices to leave on the server. That allowed us >> to check for new emails on any device but save and store them on our primary >> computers. This worked OK provided our personal computers downloaded >> frequently enough to keep the server relatively empty. >> >> But, as emails became larger, and there were lots more of them, and we took >> longer holidays with our laptop leaving our primary computers switched off >> at home - it became harder to manage and to stop our meagre server allowance >> causing everything to grind to a halt whilst we were overseas. >> >> The best solution FOR US will be to cough up for paid hosting which will >> give us enough storage and bandwidth to set-up all the accounts as IMAP - >> however, I still haven't got round to that yet! >> >> My interim solution - which works fine but involves a little more >> organisation on my part - when I took out an Office 365 subscription I got >> 1TB of MS OneDrive cloud storage which gives me plenty of email storage so I >> set-up an outlook.com email account, accessed only by IMAP, and set-up my >> email folder organisation on that. Emails to my personal account that I want >> to keep are moved to these folders and can then be deleted from the server >> on my personal domain to keep me below the quota. >> >> As you will have now realised, there are many different ways to manage your >> emails and keeps the ones you need whilst not clogging up your quota-limited >> server. The important thing is to come up with a clear plan that suits your >> personal wants/needs and then set-up your various accounts and devices so >> that they all play nice together. >> >> >> HTH >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> Neil >> -- >> Neil R. Houghton >> Albany, Western Australia >> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 >> Email: n...@possumology.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: <wamug.org.au-wamug-boun...@lists.wamug.org.au> on behalf of Julie >> Bedford <jew...@iinet.net.au> >> Reply-To: WAMUG <wamug@wamug.org.au> >> Date: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 at 01:07 >> To: WAMUG <wamug@wamug.org.au> >> Subject: Re: MAIL BOX >> >> Hi Daniel, >> >> The way you described your mail set up with filing emails, is pretty much >> the same way (if not so intricate) as the way I do mine, but only with >> selected emails and the rest I leave in the In Box to refer back to when I >> need to. I sometimes need to refer back to say 2010 - so I know where you >> are coming from. >> >> After reading your email, perhaps the problem is that I upgraded my iMac a >> while ago to Majove, in order to follow MYOB requirements, but left the >> networked MacPro with ElCapitan (can’t upgrade as you know as MacPro is now >> too old). So the Mail will be different. Could this be the problems? >> These are the only two devices I use. I haven’t any smart boxes, folders or >> rules either. On the iinet server, I have it set to delete after one month, >> but I am sure that wouldn’t be interfering with my iMac, as it never has >> done in the past with the MacPro. >> >> I have just gone onto the iinet web server and it does say I’ve exceeded >> my quota. So assume I need to delete from the server some emails ! It’s >> getting late and will have to sort out tomorrow. >> >> Cheers >> Jewels >> >> >>> On 20 Nov 2019, at 12:46 am, Daniel Kerr <dan...@macwizardry.com.au> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Julie >>> >>> When you create a new folder in Mail, you can choose to create it on the >>> “IMAP” selection (eg at iinet), or “On My Mac”. >>> Eg, go to the Mailbox menu and choose “new Mailbox”. You’ll see a drop down >>> menu, and the “Location” you want to have this set to “On My Mac”. (It >>> doesn’t mean it’s stored as a folder on the actual hard drive you can see >>> (well, it kinda is,..but it’s hidden,..but for this lets pretend we don’t >>> see it)…. >>> So in Apple Mail down the left hand side where the Mailboxes are, you’ll >>> see a header called “On My Mac”. This is where all your stored emails will >>> show. You can then have sub folders in these as well. >>> For example. I have On My Mac. Then under that I have a folder called >>> MacWizardry. Inside that I have a folder called Customers. Inside that are >>> two folders one called A;L and one called M-Z. And then inside those >>> folders are my regular clients I see all the time. I then have a “non >>> standard” folder called OC 2019, OC 2018, OC 2017 etc. Inside these folders >>> I store all my In’s and outs emails. I can go back 19 years of emails for >>> any one person. All stored locally on my computer and not on my server. So >>> I can look up any emails I want at any time. >>> And you can then have many many folders for different things. (My example >>> is just a few folders, but I have lots and lots more. Folders and then sub >>> folders inside those. >>> I move messages out of my inbox and sent mailboxes once I’ve dealt with the >>> emails and want to save them. >>> As an example I have main folder called Computers and then one of the >>> subfolders are all my WAMUG emails. Inside that one folder alone is 61,500 >>> odd wamug emails. I can quickly look up any old email I want to that folder >>> alone). >>> So my Inbox and Sent items are pretty much empty. Bar any I want to save to >>> follow up for the day or week. Anything else is filed away on my “main >>> computer” My other devices are just “slaves”. I answer emails from them, >>> but file away on just one computer only. >>> >>> But that can help store away emails. >>> >>> Back to your deleting emails. >>> I’m assuming you have other devices collecting email as well? Are they all >>> set to IMAP for the same email as well? Are you deleting from other devices? >>> As Mail itself doesn’t really have a “delete from Inbox” setting. It does >>> for Trash…but it doesn’t for anything else. So without knowing or seeing >>> all of the setup, it’s a bit hard to give a full answer unfortunately. As >>> if all using IMAP, then they *should* all be saved in the Inbox. It’s only >>> the Trash folder that deletes after a week/month etc is a setting for. >>> So in theory it shouldn’t be doing it from the Inbox. >>> Do you have any “Smart Mailboxes” or “Smart folders” or “Rules” or anything >>> like that set up? As they’re the only thing I can think that could be >>> causing the issue. (Or if you have more then one device doing emails, and >>> they have different settings or rules etc. >>> Even the iPhone and iPad (though slightly different) only have the delete >>> after x time - but again, it only applies to “Deleted Messages”, not the >>> actual Inbox. >>> And I had a quick look at my iinet webmail and can’t see any settings there >>> either that have a “delete after x time”,..so I wouldn’t think it’s coming >>> from there either. >>> >>> If you log in to iinet webmail, does it show that there is plenty of space >>> available on the server? (You can use webmail.iinet.net.au with full email >>> address and password to log in and check). >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Daniel >>> >>> --- >>> Daniel Kerr >>> MacWizardry >>> >>> Phone: 0414 795 960 >>> Email: <dan...@macwizardry.com.au> >>> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> >>> >>> >>> **For everything Apple** >>> >>> >>> Please note : All email, phone and SMS support or consulting will now be >>> charged. An invoice will be sent through on completion of support work. >>> >>>> On 20 Nov 2019, at 12:26 am, Julie Bedford <jew...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Daniel, >>>> >>>> I checked under the Server Settings and it is IMAP. Excellent idea on >>>> saving the emails On My Mac, especially as I am always going back >>>> referring to them. Excuse >>>> my ignorance, where do these files get stored though ? meaning where >>>> would I find the folder/emails. >>>> >>>> All my inbox emails disappear after a month. At the moment the oldest >>>> email in the inbox is dated 18 October 2019 and tomorrow it changes to 19 >>>> October. I’ve >>>> never had this problem before either. >>>> >>>> I had been relying on my MacPro which is networked to the iMac, but now >>>> Mail on the MacPro is playing up but rather than confuse matters, I’ll ask >>>> for some assistance in a separate email for the MacPro. This has made me >>>> decide this evening to purchase one of the new MacPro’s when it eventually >>>> becomes available - even though it will cost a fortune. >>>> >>>> Thank you for offering to help >>>> >>>> Jewels >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19 Nov 2019, at 11:13 pm, Daniel Kerr <wa...@macwizardry.com.au> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Julie >>>>> >>>>> Deleting from the inbox isn’t “standard” practice for email,…so could >>>>> either be something in the account itself or the settings. >>>>> How do you have email set up? Is it POP3 or IMAP? (Or Exchange?) >>>>> As I have POP3 and IMAP accounts and have never had email deleted from it >>>>> at all. >>>>> >>>>> So might need a bit more info to advise. >>>>> >>>>> As a “short term’” fix, you could create a folder in Apple Mail “On My >>>>> Mac” and put older emails in to folders there,..rather then in the Inbox. >>>>> This saves them all on the computer rather then in the Inbox. >>>>> (There’s a whole other long post on the benefits of doing this, rather >>>>> then leaving lots and lots of emails in Inbox, Sent etc). Saving them in >>>>> “On My Mac” folders is more beneficial generally). >>>>> >>>>> Is it just an iinet address or another? >>>>> Let us know the above and we can try and help. >>>>> Kind regards >>>>> Daniel >>>>> --- >>>>> Daniel Kerr >>>>> MacWizardry >>>>> >>>>> Phone: 0414 795 960 >>>>> Email: <daniel AT macwizardry.com.au> >>>>> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> **For everything Apple** >>>>> >>>>> NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion >>>>> and as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of >>>>> MacWizardry. Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form >>>>> of warranty or accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any >>>>> information in this email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, >>>>> that permission by the author be requested. >>>>> >>>>>> On 19 Nov 2019, at 11:05 pm, Julie Bedford <jew...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> HI Stephen >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the assistance. I already have the Erase Deleted Messages as >>>>>> Never, but >>>>>> its the ‘In Box’ that gets deleted after one month. Thing is I am >>>>>> forever going back to my >>>>>> in box for work, so I really need to keep them all in the In Box. On my >>>>>> MacPro (on El Capitan), the emails >>>>>> stay in the In Box until I delete them, which is how I prefer it. Just >>>>>> can’t seem to work out >>>>>> how to set up the iMac in the same way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Jewels >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2019, at 10:20 pm, Stephen Chape <chap...@bigpond.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Jewels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I now use Mac OS Catalina, but I don’t think this has changed. >>>>>>> So I just took a look at mine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mail/Preferences/Accounts >>>>>>> Then click on "Mailbox Behaviours" >>>>>>> Then in the box “Erase Deleted Messages” select “Never” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have mine selected for “After One Month" >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 19 Nov 2019, at 9:50 pm, Julie Bedford <jew...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have an iMac O/S Mojave and am unable to alter the behaviours in the >>>>>>>> Mail Preferences so that my Inbox does not delete my emails. >>>>>>>> I have managed to figure out how to retain the sent emails now, but am >>>>>>>> finding the Mail Behaviour options a little ambiguous to say the least >>>>>>>> and can only manage to save my inbox for a month. Under the ’sent >>>>>>>> mailbox’ option in Preferences it does not list an ‘Inbox’. My >>>>>>>> mail application does show an inbox though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would be grateful if anyone can give me a step to step instruction on >>>>>>>> how not to have my inbox emails automatically deleted. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jewels >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >>>>>>>> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >>>>>>>> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >>>>>>>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>>>>>>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Stephen Chape >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >>> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >>> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> >> >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >> Settings & Unsubscribe - >> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> >> >> >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >> Settings & Unsubscribe - >> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> > > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> Settings & Unsubscribe - <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
