On Friday 15 April 2005 20:45, mike bayer wrote: > > > Paul Boddie wrote: > >> > >> ...I firmly believe in "unbundling" templating languages from > >> frameworks. > > > > But doesn't that just make more work for the poor sods who are trying to > > build things? After all, they have to rebundle them, don't they?
First, let me respond to this. There's nothing to stop anyone from packaging a lot of this stuff together, and if the community moves forward with more convenient installation mechanisms, then perhaps no-one will need to package anything together except for extreme convenience. I was arguing against the tendency for framework developers to more or less *glue* template languages onto Web programming APIs - see the quoted text below for a good example. > theres a tradeoff of initial setup vs. user choice in how they generate > their output. pushing one specific template approach favors it over all > the others, and a lot of good ideas in all the rejected ones get blown > away. the python community, being a brainy bunch, has a particularly wide > variety of html generation approaches...I think this diversity should not > be discouraged. Way back, after my frameworks comparison ended up on the PythonInfo Wiki, I tried to start a comparison of "presentation technologies" because I saw this as an important aspect of Web programming. Sadly, such overviews were tidied away after a "refactoring" of that Wiki, and I lost any interest in keeping it up-to-date. However, such a resource would be very important, I think. > i would compare to Java Server Pages, which are klunky and hard to use, > and how every java-based site is built with crappy looking and hard to > debug JSP templates, since "thats what you use", despite the existence of > other java-based approaches which are pretty much ignored. Indeed, Struts - for a long time the Java framework with most mindshare - is only really a rationalisation of JSP best practices, and coincidentally it has enjoyed similar levels of hype (some justified, perhaps) as Rails now does. Perhaps it's also a coincidence that some of the more vocal advocates of Rails are J2EE old hands who have "found" dynamic languages. Paul _______________________________________________ Web-SIG mailing list [email protected] Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
