What is a PLUGIN file and do any exist already?
On Jan 21, 6:05 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> > * I think that the very fact that you can take parts of T2 and
> > incorporate them in the core proves that a plugin is not necessarily
> > an app (in the recognised sense of the word). If Auth is replaceable
> > by a plugin, it is (or may as well be) a plugin itself. The key
> > element is how that plugin is integrated. In the case of Auth, I
> > seems it must be via Crud (I could be wrong) but Crud enforces a URL
> > format which surely can't be mandatory to handle authorisation.
>
> Stuff is moved into core only if can be done in a module without
> services, static files and without mandating conventions on how to
> expose them. Nevertheless Auth and Crud do provide a "simple" and
> "naive" way to expose themselves until the developer figures out how
> that can be customized (I will document it eventually).
>
>
>
> > * you say a plugin is an app and "does not deserve a special folder
> > but plugin apps need to identify themselves. I think a PLUGIN file in
> > the app folder should do the task." But in the previous sentence you
> > say a plugin " can have modules, models, controllers, views, static
> > files, services." That is contradictory isn't it.
>
> No. the plugin is an app (which already contains modules, static,
> etc.)
> the PLUGIN file is needed to describe via some metadata or text how
> this app exposes services that other apps can use. Thus making it a
> spacial app, the plugin that is.
>
> > * Neither of the above apply to Auth which doesn't have a lot of other
> > files but isnt in an "app folder" either.
>
> The way I am implmenting it does not need to be an app. But class
> CasAuth(Auth):pass needs to be an app because exposes CAS provider
> services.
>
> > * when you say "in the app folder" do you mean "applications" folder
> > or the same folder as the app? (I'm assuming the latter) So every
> > app that requires Auth must have it's own copy of the plugin? I'm not
> > sure whether that is good/bad.
>
> Every application that requires Auth will just need web2py and do from
> gluon.utils import Auth!
> If an app needs a plugin that extends Auth by providing for example
> CAS would need the plugin (as they need CAS now).
>
> It has. It just has not been explained properly perhaps. It is also
> true that different people expect different things from a "plugin".
> For me a "plugin" is defined as an "app" that provides modules,
> services, views and static files, that can be used by other apps. This
> means I do not want specifications to be too strict. If you are
> expecting more from it perhaps you should explain what you would like.
>
> Massimo
>
> > I'm sorry, it just seems the thing hasn't been thought thru.
>
> > On Jan 21, 4:09 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:> Hi Bill,
>
> > > I will try to answer some of the questions you raised in the thread.
>
> > > We had an IRC meeting last week and we agreed that T2 was becoming
> > > common and people started to rely on it. At the same time maintaining
> > > web2py+T2+T3 as separate entities was becoming a nightmare. We agreed
> > > that it was possible to incorporate some parts of T2 (those that we
> > > consider good practice and those that only require python modules)
> > > into web2py.
> > > This includes:
> > > - Authentication
> > > - Role Based Authorization
> > > - Smarter Crud than SQLFORM provides (integration with authentication,
> > > more restful paths)
>
> > > The current T2 would become an example on how to extend this core, in
> > > the same fashion as you suggest.
>
> > > T3 will stay an anonymous app that based only on web2py and perhaps,
> > > once polished, it could be distributed with web2py in the future.
>
> > > About the "concept" of plugin. I agree with almost everything you say
> > > but let me insist: A PLUGIN IS AN APPLICATION. Just a special type of
> > > app. It can have modules, models, controllers, views, static files,
> > > services. It does not deserve a special folder but plugin apps need to
> > > identify themselves. I think a PLUGIN file in the app folder should do
> > > the task.
>
> > > We do need to write API specs on how to write plugins.
>
> > > For example. By having Auth provided now by web2py code, a plugin
> > > could be
>
> > > class CasAuth(Auth): ...
>
> > > which exposes the same APis as Auth but uses CAS. The plugin would
> > > also include a CAS provider app.
>
> > > Massimo
>
> > > On Jan 21, 9:19 am, billf <billferr...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > RE plugins, I think the other area that could be addressed is how
> > > > web2py allows certain types of plugin to operate.
>
> > > > For example, it would be nice if web2py says "I provide for the
> > > > following types of authorisation at point x, y, and z where I will
> > > > call a function (either called a, b and c or stored in attributes d, e
> > > > and f)", i.e. the api that a "standard" authorisation plugin must
> > > > meet. That way a) anyone writing their own know what they have to
> > > > provide and b) it documents what web2py must support for backwards-
> > > > compatibility.
>
> > > > There are probably some internal areas that might benefit from a
> > > > similar api document, e.g. the "api" exposed to a view, although I
> > > > can't quite envisage it at present.
>
> > > > On Jan 21, 2:47 pm, billf <billferr...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > > For now, I don't know if there is a difference between module and
> > > > > plugin but let's assume there is to keep it discreet.
>
> > > > > * a plugin folder
>
> > > > > * each plugin is a) a file or b) a folder - latter is more flexible if
> > > > > more than file required
>
> > > > > * an admin UI can display all plugins from the plugin folder
>
> > > > > * a means of stating dependency upon other plugins and conflict with
> > > > > other plugins so that the admin UI can automatically check/include/
> > > > > warn - is this by lines within the main(?) plugin file or a separate
> > > > > config/manifest/descriptor file
>
> > > > > * a means of describing the plugin - in text including syntax (same
> > > > > points as above lines or file)
>
> > > > > * I don't know the best way to actually import/include into app/
> > > > > project - any ideas?
>
> > > > > Bill
>
> > > > > On Jan 21, 2:08 pm, Timothy Farrell <tfarr...@swgen.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > So the big question is...what would a plugin system look like? What
> > > > > > would you want it to control?
>
> > > > > > Currently the T2 functionality is a set of Python methods that you
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > expose and add to your app. I agree that it looks cludgy, but how
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > it be made better?
>
> > > > > > I want to keep things narrow in this discussion. So let's have an
> > > > > > example: Authentication. Let's say I have an app and I want to add
> > > > > > authentication to it (aside from Basic HTTP auth). How would a
> > > > > > plugin
> > > > > > add this functionality to my app?
>
> > > > > > -tim
>
> > > > > > billf wrote:
> > > > > > > I've been away a while so I am trying to catch up with all the new
> > > > > > > stuff. I've downloaded the version in trunk and I'm trying to
> > > > > > > get my
> > > > > > > head around it all. My first (admittedly very early) impressions
> > > > > > > are:
>
> > > > > > > 1) The functionality is nice but, personally, I don't see utils.py
> > > > > > > stuff as core web2py.
>
> > > > > > > 2) I would prefer to see a simple, well-defined, rock-solid core
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > everything else as a plugin. I accept that where you draw the
> > > > > > > line is
> > > > > > > totally subjective. For example , I have no problem with a
> > > > > > > mandatory
> > > > > > > 'id' and would like to see an optional
> > > > > > > 'last_modification_timestamp'
> > > > > > > included in the core. Others want neither. I have a problem with
> > > > > > > Mail, Auth and Crud in the core. I'm sure others see no problem.
>
> > > > > > > 3) Someone devise a good plugin system pleeeeeease. Or a
> > > > > > > requirements
> > > > > > > spec for one? I know; "do it yourself" :-)
>
> > > > > > > 4) There is a bug in utils.py: lines 821, 833 and 849 should all
> > > > > > > refer
> > > > > > > to self.settings. not self.setting.
>
> > > > > > > [BTW is it possible to override the redirect at the end of
> > > > > > > create(),
> > > > > > > update() and delete()? I couldn't.]
>
> > > > > > > 5) The url
> > > > > > > format:http://..../[app]/default/database/create/[app]_event
> > > > > > > ...has got to be the least elegant way of saying "I want a form
> > > > > > > to add
> > > > > > > a record to table [app]_event" you could think of. Shouldn't the
> > > > > > > goal
> > > > > > > be:http://..../[app]/default/[app]_event ?
>
> > > > > > > 6) Crud just seems a way to minimise the need to write function
> > > > > > > stubs
> > > > > > > (by enforcing action/table/id in the url) and enforcing a call to
> > > > > > > Auth
> > > > > > > if present. It's just really a pattern for a do-everything
> > > > > > > function.
>
> > > > > > > 7) I think web2py is struggling to define itself. Is it:
>
> > > > > > > - a powerful general-purpose framework (that could do with a
> > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > attention to its foundations)?
>
> > > > > > > - a cms with a long way to go?
>
> > > > > > > - some sort of app-builder app for plugins/modules with no plugin/
> > > > > > > module api/infrastructure?
>
> > > > > > > I don't think it will succeed if it tries to be more than one of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > above. But maybe I'm just not aspirational enough.
>
> > > > > > > Obviously, the above is mostly personal hot air but then that's
> > > > > > > what a
> > > > > > > forum's for :-)
>
> > > > > > > Bill
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 21, 9:46 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >> yes but only so that you can test them and provide feedback. I
> > > > > > >> hope to
> > > > > > >> finalize the APIs and documentations within the week.
>
> > > > > > >> also I would like to change the name of the file from utils.py to
> > > > > > >> something more catchy. Any suggestion?
>
> > > > > > >> Massimo
>
> > > > > > >> On Jan 21, 1:33 am, David Marko <dma...@tiscali.cz> wrote:
>
> > > > > > >>> These things look very nice.
> > > > > > >>> Does it mean that described changes are available in svn
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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