-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi,
El 01/02/11 19:58, mikech escribió: > Ok a link would be useful: > http://smalltalkzen.wordpress.com/2011/02/01/a-secret-passion-and-your-choice-of-web-framework/ > Thanks for the link and the quote from it. It touch my experience in some kind of special way. I think that Squeak/Smalltalk and web2py share as a key feature the idea of being designed with learning in mind. In fact my background teaching "Informatics" (not "computer science") in this part of the world deals with learning using computers as cognitive devices to create and make explicit models in your head. That's why I have being using Scheme, Python and Squeak/Scratch to freshmen in their "introduction to informatics" courses. My biggest interest is not programming per se, but instead modeling and we see this in a richer context that includes social correlates on informatics (piracy, copyright, copyleft, creative commons and so on), so we never go deep in programming and I don't consider myself a programmer but more like an eternal newbie. Coming from my experience with Smalltalk/Squeak and having to deal with making models in my mind explicit in a web environment, I consider Seaside for a while, but choose finally web2py for the reasons tell in the article you reference that to me are an expression of the key features of web2py: self-contained, minimalist, complete, extensible and learning-oriented. I think that is the only one web framework that is designed taking into account the digital divide, as introduction says and this is not a minor feature, but a major concern about how technology can make lives better, no matter where you live. One of the things that I have being thinking is about the future of web2py, even more now that Massimo is thinking in the "py" part of it and this is related with another piece of the article you refer: - ---> "Then what am I doing here? Why isn’t this blog called “web2py Zen”? Because, I believe that the features that make web2py fantastic (like comprehensive documentation, out-of-the-box authentication and user management, ease of use and diversity of persistence options, amazing error logging capabilities, etc) can be added to Seaside – with some effort, but it’s not impossible. Whereas the key features of Seaside (the continuations, the reuse and embedding of components, Halos and the debugging process) cannot be easily (or at all) added to web2py. Smalltalk (and Seaside) is fundamentally “upstream” to Python, in the sense that Paul Graham writes about" <--- I would like to have some kind of philosophical discussion on this issues. Maybe the real future of computing is more related with things like COLA (Collaborative Object Lambda Architecture)[1][2][3] and what you could build on them, without sacrifice for example the syntax and semantics you know but without being limited by them and even trying to build "one language to rule them all" instead of having to learn python, CSS, HTML, Javascript, databases as in the web programming world of today. One of the things that surprise me more is on one hand the physics background of Massimo and in the other the friendly character of this community, so I think that this kind of conceptual discussions are not away of this list even if newbies like me don't understand the technical details of the day to day talks about databases and programming. Thanks, Offray [1] Getting The Message Steps Toward The Reinvention of Programming A Compact And Practical Model of Personal Computing As A Self-Exploratorium By Alan Kay, Dan Ingalls, Yoshiki Ohshima, Ian Piumarta, Andreas Raab. http://irbseminars.intel-research.net/AlanKayNSF.pdf [2] An evolving whitepaper about the "combined object-lambda abstractions" http://piumarta.com/papers/colas-whitepaper.pdf [3] Ian Piumarta Slides Pdf http://piumarta.com/papers/EE380-2007-slides.pdf -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNSXTgAAoJEGiex2828ICwB/oH/0i3Jqb8XmZgooNc8E2Lpd8S ynpwPp69AeE1XhuvSqW8TC6mhotIY3DTJh2X8hSrJKw5QK2WQrsiBChSJjSEuqlh 10jOJAc/SSnUj5qO0sV/4Q1OwhIy41KCbawFiuLy+JtGPmkctLrIorquZNU1++77 6Kn+FK5KPcLiFd6D1HGKzQs4MGBK8JeJzpWACHxmRdHxuZZzJUYc11HfvGbOxLp+ kwMfIJhnxkYpgSKZs3+BhO/W3ItWZWpyyalTL7P+rupvPvgud7zUWh7+8uG64swf 2v83hacrfLzqlGilXoysiiAGrAOCPMYtNxJm7z+h7tnWGvoyMwtO1MxxPMcktAE= =T0wz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
