I have a lot of un reading this list !!
I just installed Eclipse and will give one hour/day learning this
environment so the transition will be smooth and , hey.... we have
ample time to switch - so Apple says .... so don't worry. I'm
personally not afraid of learning new things. I studyied
Architecture, then was musician for a few years before discovering
the web, html, cs.. then PB, xCode, and in a few months eclipe (or
something unknown yet) ;-) Life seems only interesting when you learn
new things and discover new horizons... and by the way I have 2 kids
and still find time to learn new things... just because I need it...
On 22 janv. 07, at 21:00, Miguel Arroz wrote:
Hi!
No offense, but if you are **permanently** working 50-60 hours a
week, than there's something wrong with your job/company! And by
"working" I understand "coding". Software engineering is an area
where thins evolve fast, too fast sometimes. But that's a fact. The
only way to keep up is by learning new things. And part of our work
should be just that. I was a little surprised when saw messages in
this mail-list from people that still had Obj-C apps running, and
they were thinking about running them in Rosetta on the new intel
machines. This is NOT the way to get things done. Things change,
technology changes, everything changes. We must all be ready for
that. WebObjects could even be terminated. Just like that. With
luck it would be released in open source. The worst case would be
"it's over. Go home.". And when that happens, we must move along
to. We cannot stay here crying about how bad the world can be. We
change. We adapt. Or we go live in a farm and take care of little
pigs and cows like I will do someday! But until that, never stop
learning, evolving and adapting.
And about Eclipse... trust us, if you learn it, you will work a
LOT faster. You'll do more in the 50-60 hours, or you'll do the
same in less time.
Yours
Miguel Arroz
On 2007/01/22, at 19:45, Galen Rhodes wrote:
Productivity is a very subjective thing. Kind of like taste.
The big point that is coming out of all of this is that many of us
have invested a lot of time and energy becoming familiar with
xcode/WOBuilder/EOModeler and have habits and instincts that suit
us just fine, thank-you.
But now Apple is more or less pulling the rug out from underneath
us and telling us to drop everything and take the time to learn a
new way of doing things. And we're not happy about it!
When you're already working 50-60 hours a week just to meet
current deadlines it makes you angry to have someone say "just
take the time to learn Eclipse." Some times life just doesn't
work that way. Not when you have a host of other commitments
outside of work.
Maybe we are a bunch of whiners but I still feel that our point is
valid.
On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:31 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
I don't recall of _anyone_ every wanting to go back once they
understood enough of Eclipse (figure on a mostly productive week).
Well, maybe other than Georg.... :-P
Chuck
On Jan 22, 2007, at 11:28 AM, Ken Anderson wrote:
Honestly, for me, productivity went forward by leaps and bounds
when I switched to Eclipse/WOLips. I don't know about anyone
else, but I found that debugging WO (especially with lots of
frameworks) with xcode was extremely painful, requiring lots of
recompiles and manual references. Maybe I was doing something
wrong, but in Eclipse, it 'just works'.
I'll never go back!
Ken
On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Jonathan Miller wrote:
Hi,
I've taken the plunge (started using Eclipse) and it is really
not that bad at all. Matter of fact the only issue that I saw
that is a real problem, is it does not out of the box compile
applications for SSDD/WAR correctly. It took someone from the
list to help me get this going. Other than that, I see no
reason to go back to XCode. Eclipse can be modified to add
code completion support for not only HTML, but CSS and
JavaScript too. So, in many ways it is a better web page
design tool than WOBuilder. Have a look at www.aptana.com
re: Who has the time? Unfortunately (fortunately?), I believe
this profession requires you to learn new things all the time
and this is just one more instance of it.
BR
Jon
I keep hearing the phrase's "once I converted my projects" and
"once
I got use to Eclipse/WOLips." That's a really big problem for
a lot
of us who REALLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME!
We don't have the month or more to figure out and acclimate
ourselves
to Eclipse/WOLips and painstakingly convert all of our projects
and
frameworks (which I'm still fighting with). Combine this with the
fact that now I'll be editing my HTML and WOD files by hand and
we're
talking a serious loss of productivity. (and time... and money...)
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"We have no sympathy for the lost souls
We've chosen the path of disgrace
We give this life to our children
And teach them to hate this place" -- Apocalyptica, Life Burns!
Miguel Arroz
http://www.ipragma.com
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