I sent that email days ago. I guess it just cleared the Moderators. Better late than never. :-)
Dave On Nov 12, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Lachlan Deck wrote: > Hey Dave, > > quite compelling... cheers. > > On 07/11/2009, at 12:50 AM, David Avendasora wrote: > >> On Nov 6, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: >> >>> So if we're stirring the pot here ... For me, it's not being cool in the >>> browser, it's about Java apps looking terrible. You can immediately tell >>> when you're using a Java app ... Things are just never quite right, but >>> they try to sell themselves as being native. It's an uncanny valley >>> situation. Eclipse/SWT are using native controls for lots of things and >>> they get it wrong, too. Swing just doesn't have a chance. Go try IDEA -- it >>> looks TERRIBLE. Look at their preference panels. I tweeted when IDEA went >>> free that I can see how to make Eclipse right, but I'd never be able to >>> make IDEA right. >> >> I understand the uncanny valley. In most cases you are absolutely right. >> Here's a screen grab from my current D2JC project, I think it looks pretty >> good, although it doesn't look like a modern OS X app (iTunes, etc): >> >> <PastedGraphic-3.png> >>> For browser apps, it's obvious they're not native apps, and the bar is set >>> low in the browser at this point, so you can make a slick looking app, and >>> it doesn't have to be perfectly native, and people are still OK with it. I >>> would be far more interested in CocoaClient where you actually have a >>> chance of pulling off a nice end-user deliverable. >> >> I agree. For me a WO Cocoa Client is the Holy Grail of Client-Server. I want >> it. Badly. >> >>> That said, I recognize that there are plenty of apps where "looking slick" >>> doesn't really matter -- that you just need to get some business app out >>> there. But what does Java bring to the table that you're not getting in the >>> browser? >> >> With plain WebObjects JavaClient, you get >> 1) Real Java on the client. No messing around learning JavaScript (or >> waiting for the "next great JS framework") to implement UI logic. >> 2) EOF on the Client with >> - automatic syncing of Client and Server EditingContexts (works very >> similar to Child ECs) >> - batching >> - faulting >> - validation >> >>> Why not just use D2W? Drag and drop is about the only thing, and that will >>> be in the good browsers pretty soon. >> >> For me, it's not about the features you get in the client, although there's >> some cool stuff that way too. It's the dead-simple development side that >> makes it so awesome to me. With WebObjects D2JC you don't have to write >> _any_ code at all. No HTML. No CSS. No JavaScript. Not even rules! You hear >> that D2W guys? The D2JC EOAssistant works great and it will write most of >> the rules you need! Here's a screen capture of it (it's also a Java Client >> app that communicates with WOLips to update the user.d2wmodel file): >> >> <PastedGraphic-6.tiff> >> >> Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack this thread with Java Client, but hey Anjo >> brought it up! :-P >> >> Dave >> >> >>> >>> I do, however, think D2JC is a _neat_ technology, in that it's amazingly >>> clever what it's doing under the covers, I just am not sold on the end >>> result. >>> >>> ms >>> >>> On Nov 6, 2009, at 7:41 AM, David Avendasora wrote: >>> >>>> Hey! Did I hear "JavaClient"?! :-D >>>> >>>> Yeah, it will be cool if someday we get the tools to do something >>>> client-server like JavaClient. >>>> >>>> Oh wait! We already _have_ WebObjects-based JavaClient, and >>>> Direct-To-JavaClient and it works today and has for _years_. >>>> >>>> Sure, it's not as "cool" as a browser-based solution, in the same way WO >>>> isn't as "cool" as Ruby. >>>> >>>> **ducks, runs for cover and scrambles to get the D2JC project template >>>> updated** >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 6, 2009, at 7:32 AM, Anjo Krank wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not really sure... basically you'd need something totally new, as this >>>>> would be more like JavaClient and not like a web app. But all this is >>>>> *moot* until we don't have it. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, Anjo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Am 06.11.2009 um 13:05 schrieb Mike Schrag: >>>>> >>>>>> Yeah .. I suspect there could be a GianduiaLook, and that would make a >>>>>> lot of sesnse. >>>>>> >>>>>> ms >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think we've seen with the SproutCore stuff that it's not. Apart from >>>>>>> *maybe* a JS D2W. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, Anjo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 06.11.2009 um 02:54 schrieb Mike Schrag: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rom my perspective, I don't know that it's worth building a server >>>>>>>> stack on top of it as much as I think it would be nice to leverage the >>>>>>>> development tools we already have to make it easier to write the >>>>>>>> Javascript. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40mdimension.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to msch...@mdimension.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> David Avendasora >>>> Senior Software Engineer >>>> K12, Inc. >>>> >>>> ***** >>>> WebObjects Documentation Wiki : >>>> http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WO/ >>>> ***** >>>> WebObjects API: >>>> http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/documentation/MacOSXServer/Reference/WO54_Reference/index.html >>>> ***** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40mdimension.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to msch...@mdimension.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> David Avendasora >> Senior Software Engineer >> K12, Inc. >> >> ***** >> WebObjects Documentation Wiki : >> http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WO/ >> ***** >> WebObjects API: >> http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/documentation/MacOSXServer/Reference/WO54_Reference/index.html >> ***** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lachlan.deck%40gmail.com >> >> This email sent to lachlan.d...@gmail.com > > with regards, > -- > > Lachlan Deck > > > > > David Avendasora Senior Software Engineer K12, Inc. ***** WebObjects Documentation Wiki : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WO/ ***** WebObjects API: http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/documentation/MacOSXServer/Reference/WO54_Reference/index.html ***** _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
