Agreed. Especially on KVC being the colloquial “shit”. A few years back, Q 
created an open source implementation of Foundation (including KVC) which 
should fit the bill should someone like to do some re-implementing. I’ve been 
planning to work with this for a WO-reimplementation for quite a while, but 
like Ricardo I’ve had a hard time fitting it in with the whole wife and 
children thing :).

https://github.com/qdolan/NSFoundation4J

- hugi



> On 4. maí 2016, at 13:28, Samuel Pelletier <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Cayenne is a clean room implementation of something like EOF. At least, I 
> think it was the project goal and seems very mature, I would not spend time 
> to write something else.
> 
> The magic part of WO come from Key Value Coding and the WO component request 
> handling that map the action and call them after setting all the variable to 
> the expected value. This is a huge time saver for complex app, especially 
> with complex object graphs.
> 
> With WO, you can build very complex UI without having to think on how I would 
> determine on which value I should apply the action. This can be a real pain 
> to do manually with nested repetitions (and it may open many security holes). 
> Yes, these URL does not support the back button and are not bookmark savvy 
> but for management systems, this is not a problem. For high volume public 
> sites with REST like URL or simple REST gateway to a data storage, there are 
> many very good alternative out there. 
> 
> KVC also allows ERXKeys and easy component writing and usage.
> 
> Samuel
> 
> 
>> Le 4 mai 2016 à 08:03, Ricardo Parada <[email protected]> a écrit :
>> 
>> If you think about it, one of the reasons they are bringing Swift to Linux 
>> is because they want a cool language on the server as well as on the client 
>> and leverage the code and libraries on both. 
>> 
>> At some point these developers need an ORM framework. Either Apple or 
>> someone else will do it in pure Swift without requiring the Objective-C 
>> run-time. Possibly a future Core Data. Then they'll need a templating 
>> request handling framework like WebObjects for Swift. And a REST framework. 
>> Let's bug Federighi with emails about bringing this back. :-)
>> 
>> Anyways, putting all this day dreaming aside I think we need a clean room 
>> implementation of EOF as it had been described before.  I have worked at al 
>> levels in EOF and I feel this would be possible until I realize that I am 
>> married with four kids and a full time job that leaves me with no spare time 
>> left to work on things like this.   :-)
>> 
>> Was the idea of a clean room implementation of EOF abandoned?
>> 
>> 
>> On May 4, 2016, at 4:48 AM, Hugi Thordarson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Probably no one as surprised as myself. I probably sent dozens of e-mails 
>>> to sjobs on the subject trough the years without receiving a reply. But to 
>>> Tim’s credit, it only took four emails before I was contacted. He’s a lot 
>>> less stubborn, obviously.
>>> 
>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending 
>>> angry emails to corporate executives, these days we  mostly conduct our 
>>> coastal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore 
>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and 
>>> running around raping and pillaging.
>>> 
>>> - hugi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: David LeBer <[email protected]>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>>>> To: Chuck Hill <[email protected]>
>>>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
>>>> 
>>>> Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long 
>>>> dead and forgotten product ;)
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> D
>>>> 
>>>> On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck Hill ([email protected]) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have 
>>>>> taken some persistence! “Frank, this damn Hugi guy keeps bugging us every 
>>>>> year, get rid of him!”
>>>>> 
>>>>> :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2016-05-03, 4:04 PM, 
>>>>> "[email protected] on behalf of 
>>>>> Pascal Robert" 
>>>>> <[email protected] on behalf of 
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Le 3 mai 2016 à 12:47, Flavio Donadio <[email protected]> a écrit :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hugi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. 
>>>>>>> The silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us 
>>>>>>> the truth, although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final 
>>>>>>> word, straight from the horse’s mouth! I guess we have it now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, they say WO is dead. We say “long live, WO!"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We should move on to the next step: nagging Apple to release WO/EOF as 
>>>>>>> open source software! ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This topic comes around every year. Multiple people asked this to Apple 
>>>>>> over the last 7 years. It won’t happen. Final.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Flavio
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016, at 12:19, Hugi Thordarson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a 
>>>>>>>> long time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially 
>>>>>>>> (at least I don't recall there being an official statement).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Anyhow… In the past years I've regularly sent letters to Tim Cook, 
>>>>>>>> asking about the state of WO (being the naggy guy I am) and recently, 
>>>>>>>> I was contacted by Apple executive relations regarding my questions. 
>>>>>>>> The guy I spoke to called a couple of times, at first, he had 
>>>>>>>> absolutely no idea what WO was but the second time he called, he had 
>>>>>>>> obtained information and had a clear statement: "WebObjects is a 
>>>>>>>> discontinued product and will never be upgraded".
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I know this information is extremely redundant, but I still wanted to 
>>>>>>>> tell you since it was something of a relief. Felt a little like the 
>>>>>>>> police calling you to let you know that they'd found the remains of 
>>>>>>>> your friend that's been missing for 15 years and finally declared him 
>>>>>>>> dead.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But of course, this changes nothing; WO is still better than ever. We 
>>>>>>>> just need to continue to distance Wonder from WO and move forward.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> - hugi
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
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