Dear Vasco Oguzua,
I thank God and myself that I am back to my computer and I can ably respond to
you and make you know that we are on the same debate.
First of all I want to apologise that for unknown reason your response to me
got posted under spam messages that is why I could not respond immediately,
save for other commitments that kept me away from the computer.
Your response to John over what he shared in good faith is right below here and
I am only going to give it a few punches here and there in the way I understood
it, which prompted the piece I earlier wrote to you and you denouced of having
no bearing to your debate. I am glad you expressed your opinion about it anyhow.
Your first sentence reads, "I do not think there is really anything much to
infer from this reading, because the comparisons of social ,
economic, educational infrastructure in the places in these articles can not be
compared with what we have in Uganda or West Nile for that matter." As an
opening you even failed to appreciate the warm heart John had in sharing that
piece. To you the social, economic, educational infrastructure and other
conditions in the places in these articles can not be compared with what we
have in Uganda or West Nile for that matter. Unless you may want us to belive
that the good amenities enjoyed by those superior economies just dropped in
from heaven then there would be no reason for us to exist as individuals, a
people, society or even country. You may need to go backwards to dig into the
histories, geographies, status of the educational infrastructure and all other
socio-economies of those countries (which now have
superior economies) that is when it will dawn on you that these countries or
societies were at one time like or worse than us. Such is the reason why at
home we had oral tradition and in school we study subjects like History,
Geography, Economics, Political Economies and even some sciences to compare
notes. If we then remain dismissive and say that because of the current
advanced status of those societies we can not infer "anything" we miss the
point and it is worth saying that we should not even be trying to develop at
what ever level, personal of community. I pointed out the best brains from the
poor and developed countries in comparison at the micro level and in the same
spirit macro (country) level comparisons may be done.
Your second point goes, "While indeed it is important to talk about encouraging
students and parents to work hard, there are certain basic necessities that
really have to be in place. We may think that China is a third world, but I
think China is far developed than a country like Uganda with almost no basic
necessities of economic and social amenities....Is Uganda not getting aid from
China for some of its development projects!!!."...
I really want to make it apparent to you that we as a society have the basic
necessities and social amenities, save perhaps for our own failures to spot the
opportunities. It goes back to my earlier argument that China as a developed
third world country did not emerge one good morning and found herself in that
status. The people set ambitions after seeing opportunities; they worked hard,
that is the synergy between ambition and hard work at them...it doesn't
necessarily mean cracking your palm or brain but working, measuring
achievements and maintaining focus to attain your dreams preferably in a period
agreeable to yourself. Some of the basic economic and social amenities that are
seemingly in place in China were not there before and they are not there in
every part of China! My good friend Vasco, do not get deceived that when these
countries boast of blossoming economies everything was and is rossy all over
their nations. In many aspects these
countries were even worse than some of the underdeveloped third world
economies. Even in their present successful status they still have some
regions, society and people who are worse than our so called poor regions,
society and people in every aspect. Furthermore, aid because it mainly flows
from the rich to the poor, per se is not always because the countries or
individuals just want to help due to their higher economies; you may wish to
believe or not that much of the aid floating around in the world is out of the
fear of the developed or richer economies loosing their dominance.
Thinking that "the parents and students in Uganda or West Nile 'can not' easily
relate to this article [since] there are no common easily identifiable
attributes they have with people living in these countries listed. The
opportunities and infrastructure for anyone poor person to get rich in America
are not the same as the opportunities and infrastructure for poor people in
Uganda or West Nile. The poorest person in America could considered a middle
class in Uganda because anyone making less than $20, 000.00 a year in the USA
is considered poor.... and yet in Uganda that would be a lot of money.The
poorest public schools in the US could be considered some of the best schools
in Uganda just in terms of the infrastructure alone. I do not know how hard
work in US and hard work in Uganda or West Nile could be compared,
especially due to the difference in socio-economic amenities available to the
people." You are right to say "I do not know how
hard work..." but I say no to the rest of your assertions above.Through your
article you may have already discouraged many feeble hearted souls, if they
cared to read. We have a lot of common easily identifiable attributes save for
the built environments in those countries, which seemed to have influenced your
opinion to say that. You may need to infer upon other socio-economic
comparisons [inclusive of the micro level] in order to belive that. A positive
outlook would be a further good touch to compare the developed and our society.
We have opportunities and some good infrastructure in our own context, which if
genuinely compared gives a better quality of life. I have seen people attracted
by the good life out there with all the opportunities and (1) they cannot come
back because they cannot even raise the required money for an airticket; (2)
come back to be challenged by the progress made by those they left behind in
the land of 'little or no
opportunities'; (3) come back just to fit like others in society without
anything strange or differrent or of special recognition. In short you may not
my brother conclude for all other readers.
Saying that "it would make sense to compare how a poor person in Sudan, or DRC
or Tanzania or Kenya was able to do better than a poor man in Uganda. Even then
the environments [in] these countries for the poor people where they would be
operating would be different, (even) though they are neighbouring countries" is
tantamount to a child coming back with an examination report showing s/he was
the best in a class of dull pupils. Tell me if you as a parent in any sense of
the word would be happy from the bottom of your heart about that result, let
alone using the dullest pupils in class as the reference point. Our poor
parents wouldn't be happy either, I guess.
"Our issues should be how we can foster an understanding of building or
improving the institutions that are supposed to help poor people improve their
lives and advocacy of empowering our people to use the available resources
improve their situation." This is an escapist statement from personal
responsibility. I already gave my opinion over this based on field experiences
and readings I have done that the reverse as stated in my earlier response
seems to contribute more to sustainable development in most aspects than your
statement. You may wish to do more research on that.
In conclusion Mr. Vasco I would like to make it clear that I understood what
you wrote in response to John's piece in the very nature you published it in
this forum, unless you meant otherwise, which you kept to yourself. You may
need to make the intentions of your debate clear through future writings and
other fora. In any case my duty is to understand them the way they are and the
way they will be written or said - I will not have to study literature in order
to understand your writings or words.
Happy New Year to you and all those who will partake of this piece in your
various understandings.
Aggrey Adrale
--- On Fri, 14/1/11, Vasco Oguzua <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Vasco Oguzua <[email protected]>
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [WestNileNet] {Disarmed} Re: Ten reason why Asian
students excel in academics
To: "A Virtual Network for friends of West Nile" <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, 14 January, 2011, 20:14
Dear Aggrey Adrale,
Reading from your post, it is evident that you did not comprehend the premise
or point argument in the article John posted and my response to that article.
You have confused HARD WORK with AMBITION, which you have so much expressed in
your article. These two words are not synonymous and they do not mean the same.
So there is not much for me to argue with you on this issue because we are not
discussing the same issue in my view.
You have further gone to talk about listing best brains originating from our
locale which in my view was not the topic of discussion in those articles. I
would request that you go back and re-read John's article so that you have a
better understanding what was being presented and why i responded the way I
did. There is not doubt we have brilliant brains in our community (local,
National, Continent). I would like to remind you that the best examples of hard
were amongst our community have been presented many times in some of the
articles I believe the Monitor or New vision carried our sometime back if you
have been following reading some of the articles in the news.
When we want to compare HARD WORK amongst developed and least developed
countries we may need to establish some common grounds or similarities in the
criteria upon which such comparisons are based for the comparison to be
meaningful and for people to learn from if the purpose of the comparison is to
be educative at all.I have no doubt in my mind that we can excel in any
competetion with the developed world if the grounds of out completion are the
same for the competetors.
Since you missed the gist of the argument in the article, I am not surprised
that you missed the point of my response and have gone to talk about ambition
which is not the point of discussion in those articles.
I hope you remember one of our brothers who represented Uganda in the
Internationa Debating Competetion which occurred somewhere in Europe. All he
needed was to be provided an opportunity to participate and he indeed did
represented us so well. Without that opportunity what HARD Work alone would
not have taken him that far. The point in my response was the importance of
creating a condusive environment in which where people can try their Luck
through hard work,
I am sure you may have childreon or sisters or brothers or relatives who are
studying in schools Kampala or even in schools like Mvara, Ombaci., Muni but
not in some of thsoe USE schools in the village. You definitely know why you
would prefer or have your relatives in those schools other than those other
poor schools with very little facilities and infrasctructure.
You may want to re-examine your concept of ambition in the context of the
premise of the original article.
Vasco
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 2:41 AM, aggrey adrale <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Vasco,
Thank you for your opinion on the article posted by John. Perhaps I would say
that you just gave it a sloppy treat and couldn't pick from some of the
examples of the best brains we have in the world originating from
Africa, Uganda and West Nile in particular, though few despite the poor
socio-economic, built environment and academic backgrounds they started from. I
would have mentioned their names but permit me not to for the purpose of not
diluting this debate and giving the opportunity to you and others who may have
wished to think like you to positively look at the merits and demerits of what
John shared with the forum.
China, Singapore and other countries like them set themselves high ambitions
from the potentials they knew they had, to get to the levels which you do not
want us to think about. We also do have our potentials, only that many times we
do not sit down to evaluate and re-evaluate our selves other than marvelling at
other peoples achievements - in simple terms, we give up!. Those achievements
are not out of nothing but carefully orchestrated plans and reviews coupled
with hard work. Reading from the histories (let alone what is commonly
published) of the highly developed countries including China and Singapore,
they didn't have to start from the macro or policy levels. Rather they held
their micro-ambitions which, after relatively developing, they used to set
policies and influence decisions.
It is not a bad idea setting high ambitions and such were the ambitions of
countries such as China, Singapore and others now considerably developed. So it
goes that at personal, family and other levels we can set and maintain such
high ambitions and where we feel challenged we can still have the moral
obligation of encouraging others such as our children, dependent siblings and
all others that we care for. Perhaps our weaknesses are at policy level but at
the micro level we have a duty to try and compete with the worlds best.
Saying that and I quote from your contribution, "our issues should be how we
can foster an understanding of building or improving the institutions that are
supposed to help poor people improve their lives and advocacy of empowering our
people to use the available resources improve their situation". I would like
to turn your statement in the reverse order that we first use the available
resources to improve our situation and emerge as an empowered society to
advocate for further improvement of our lives; build and improve institutions
that help to protect our improved lives.
Please when you review your contribution to what John posted, encourage us to
try and fail but not fail to try to rate our selves against the world's best.
Aggrey Adrale
--- On Wed, 12/1/11, Vasco Oguzua <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Vasco Oguzua <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [WestNileNet] Ten reason why Asian students excel in academics
To: "A Virtual Network for friends of West Nile" <[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, 12 January, 2011, 18:45
John,
I do not think there is really anything much to infer from this reading,
because the comparisons of social , economic, educational infrastructure in the
places in these articles can not be compared with what we have in Uganda or
West Nile for that matter. While indeed it is important to talk about
encouraging students and parents to work hard, there are certain basic
necessities that really have to be in place. We may think that China is a third
world, but I think China is far developed than a country like Uganda with
almost no basic necessities of economic and social amenities....Is Uganda
not getting aid from China for some of its development projects!!!.
I think the parents and students in Uganda or West Nile can not easily relate
to this article there are no common easily identifiable attributes they have
with people living in these countries listed. The opportunities and
infrastructure for anyone poor person to get rich in America are not the same
as the opportunities and infrastructure for poor people in Uganda or West Nile.
The poorest person in America could considered a middle class in Uganda because
anyone making less than $20, 000.00 a year in the USA is considered poor....
and yet in Uganda that would be a lot of money.The poorest public schools in
the US could be considered some of the best schools in Uganda just in terms of
the infrastructure alone. I do not know how hard work in US and hard work in
Uganda or West Nile could be compared, especially due to the difference in
socio-economic amenities available to the people. It would make sense to
compare how a poor person in Sudan, or
DRC or Tanzania or Kenya was able to do better than a poor man in Uganda. Even
then the environments these countries for the poor people where they would be
operating would be different, even though they are neighbouring countries. Our
issues should be how we can foster an understanding of building or
improving the institutions that are supposed to help poor people improve their
lives and advocacy of empowering our people to use the available resources
improve their situation.
Vasco
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM, JohnAJackson <MailScanner has detected a
possible fraud attempt from "uk.mc297.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be
MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from
"uk.mc297.mail.yahoo.com" claiming to be [email protected]> wrote:
Dear friends of West Nile Forum ,
I thought you might like to read this info and tune the mind of your brothers,
sisters, sons or duaghters
Top 10 Ways To Play
China's Obsession With
Academic Excellence
by Tony Sagami
Dear John,
I was less than two years old when my parents divorced in 1957
for us in America. Why?
My mother knew that a half-Japanese, half-American child had limited
opportunities in Japan. It wasn't like it is today; the wounds from World War
II were too fresh. I would have never gone to a top university or landed a top
job.
Even though my mother barely spoke English and seldom had more than two nickels
to rub together, she fiercely held to the idea of the American dream. "In
America, anybody can get rich if they work hard," she told me.
My mother ordered me to sit in the front row right in front of the teacher's
desk. She gave me almost daily lectures on the importance of education, and
punished me severely if I brought home anything less than an A. My mother was a
big believer in corporal punishment and I got the spankings of my life for
anything less than straight A's.
For someone who started off as a homeless immigrant, my mother saw all her
children grow up to achieve great professional success. I am sad to say that my
mother died seven years ago from cancer, but I preach the same lessons about
education to my children to this day.
External Sponsorship
Guess Who Tops Global Education Performance?
Students from 65 countries, including the United States, recently took the
Program for International Student Assessment, known as PISA, given by the
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).
Guess who came in first in reading, math and science? Students in China's
Shanghai Province. To view the OECD's PISA press release, click here.
To jump directly to the PISA data table, click here.
That is very impressive given that this is the first time China had taken part
in the test.
PISA tests are scored on a scale with 500 as the average. Two-thirds of
students in participating countries score between 400 and 600.
On the math test, the Chinese students beat everybody by a wide margin.
Second-place Singapore, which has been seen as an educational superstar in
recent years, scored 562. Germany was a distant third at 513.
The United States scored 487, a score that was behind 30 other countries.
On the reading test, China had the top score again at 556. South Korea came in
second with 539 and the United States came in 17th with a 500, clustered around
students from the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Germany, France, and the United
Kingdom.
In science, China was first AGAIN with a 575. Finland came in second with a 554
and the United States came in 23rd with a 502.
What is the secret to China's academic success? Simple; they work their butts
off. Most Chinese students don't finish until 5 p.m. or 6 p.m., watch little
television and play very few video games. Chinese students are prohibited from
working before the age of 16, so they can concentrate on school. Plus, most
students attend tutoring classes after school and on Saturdays.
"Very rarely do children in other countries receive academic training as
intensive as our children do. So if the test is on math and science, there's no
doubt Chinese students will win the competition," said Sun Baohong of the
Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences.
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