Hi Pine, I definitely think that there is enough data to start a project or workspace dedicated to creating tools that will deliver the data in ways that can support decision-making. Given 10 newbie good-faith editors, what are their types of interests and reasons for staying or leaving? Similar questions can be asked of current editors. If we break this down, I guess the main questions we have can be split into two groups; namely content-related questions (what types of content receive the most onwiki support? what types of content do we delete most often?) and onboarding questions (who do we let edit the articles we have? who are our page-creators?). Slicing and dicing these questions, you could look at the problems with our current category structure and naming/diambiguation conventions, but also our current list of "reliable sources" and how that relates to our current interpretation of "notability" for whatever field of interest the end-researcher may have. If we can come up with proven success factors based on long-standing editor contributions, we may be able to develop a recipe for successful canvassing to use in editathons and presentations.
Like I said, I think experienced Wikimedians can probably formulate such questions better than outsiders to our community, and I think we need to get some new talent on board that can help us write/summarize a structural history of Wikipedia-editing over the past decade in order to help get people up to speed on the issues. Jane On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 11:42 PM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > Jane, what would you think about the concept of an IEG research project > (or, due to the grantmaking restructure, a "project grant" research > project) about gathering some of the data that you suggest and developing > recommendations, tools, or systems designed to improve the situations with > NPP, AFC, and similar queues? > > Pine > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 1:59 AM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Pine, >> Thanks for your thoughtful answer! No, let's not throw any money at this >> problem yet, but let's consider first all of our options. We should have a >> pretty big amount of data available in AfC backlogs and deletions. Maybe we >> can direct some trusted researchers there. I guess they would have to have >> admin rights if we want them to have access to the deletions, though that >> may be debatable if the material was never published onwiki and only >> submitted to an open-access project. >> >> Last month I was flattered, amused, offended, and astounded by degrees >> when I attended the Erasmus Prize presentations by researchers of the >> University of Amsterdam. I have been thinking back to those presentations >> again and again ever since. I wish they had been taped, especially some of >> the reactions from the mostly Wiki(p/m)edian audience. We need solid data >> in order to make weighed decisions. Since this is an encyclopedia, there is >> no rush and we can plan for decision-making based on numbers and ways to >> get those numbers. >> >> Though the collateral damage in CoI (Conflict-of-Interest) editing is a >> big one, it pales in comparison to the collateral damage in diversity >> edits. By diversity I don't even mean women and people of color, but >> subjects currently not on the top-ten notability list of new page >> patrollers. In order to innovate and morph into an up-to-date "sum of all >> knowledge" hub for the universe, we need a lot more than just the stuff we >> let in now. We need ongoing projects dealing with such things as oral >> histories, film- video- or audio citations, music themes, recording types, >> and all sorts of other things that don't even fit the old text-based model. >> >> After listening to those presentations it occurred to me that the typical >> Wikimedian could probably write a better study proposal than the typical >> professor who has never made an edit. Maybe we should be actively >> soliciting scholarly research from our own ranks and offer a quarterly >> research award to Wikimedians who are able to wrangle the data in such a >> way that our questions are answered. We just need a place to put our >> structured questions and some "How-to" info about the data. As far as I >> know, we don't have a published database schema that relates the technical >> terms to the onwiki terms. >> >> Jane >> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jane, >>> >>> Regarding "Are there any numbers available on how many AfC's resulted in >>> articles vs. submissions and then also the same numbers for non-AfC page >>> creations vs. speedy deletions?", I'm sure that data is available but I >>> suspect that getting WMF to take another round of analyzing and trying to >>> improve the situation with AfC would probably require that it be on some >>> team's quarterly goals. >>> >>> I feel that it would be good to resurrect the WMF Growth team. >>> Currently, I hear that contributor growth is one of the metrics that is or >>> will be emphasized for Product teams, but there is no single point of >>> contact for coordinating the multiple growth initiatives, both inside of >>> Product and those being funded by grants. I think that coordination in this >>> area would be beneficial, and that this team would be well positioned to >>> take on activities like developing ways to improve AfC, NPP, etc. >>> >>> Along these lines, one of my thoughts is that WMF has invested heavily >>> in software engineering and data science, my impression is that WMF is >>> lacking in social scientists. WMF has tried many times to develop technical >>> improvements for social problems, with success that has been mixed at best. >>> I would like to see people with backgrounds in fields like social >>> psychology, economics, sociology, and urban planning be involved in a >>> resurrected Growth team. >>> >>> Also, I'm wondering if the shortage of volunteer capacity -- >>> particularly the shortage of competent and quickly-responsive volunteer >>> capacity -- in certain community roles (like reviewers of CoI-flagged edits >>> as well as domains like AfC) increasingly suggests that some of these tasks >>> be at least partially done by paid staff, such as the Wiki Ed Foundation >>> currently does with its content experts that assist classes in the US and >>> Canada Wikipedia Education Program. I suspect that WMF wouldn't want to >>> touch these roles in AfC, CoI and other queues because content review is >>> involved, so maybe this is a place where Wikimedia affiliates can and >>> should get more involved. The affiliates can work on content in ways that >>> WMF cannot. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> Pine >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Pine, >>>> >>>> I agree with Oliver and Kerry on the violence vs. drip-drip-drip. Our >>>> success at keeping people from editing matches the height of the >>>> threshold-to-edit. There's no violence going on, it's just the annoyance >>>> tolerance level that the typical volunteer needs to have in order to be >>>> able cross into the wikiverse seems to be going up these days. Thanks for >>>> posting the link to that SWOT analysis - is there any more information >>>> about the context in which it was made? Though you mention that experienced >>>> Wikipedians know New Page Patrollers create collateral damage and the >>>> SWOT slide shows NPP as both a strength and a weakness, no one ever >>>> addresses the fact that NPP also contains some seriously misguided POV >>>> pushers who in fact act as censors when they use the AfC tools and leave >>>> the entries they don't care about to rot. So I see NPP not just as a >>>> strength and a weakness, but also as a threat, and its associated AfC is a >>>> major threat. I assume AfC was left out of the SWOT analysis because it is >>>> so controversial: >>>> >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SWOT_analysis_of_Wikipedia_in_2015.jpg >>>> >>>> In that slide the parenthetic notes on items which may fall into more >>>> than one quadrant do not include "undisclosed conflict-of-interest editing" >>>> so I am also guessing whoever made it falls into the camp of thinking that >>>> anyone who is a paid editor and doesn't reveal this on their userpage is a >>>> threat. It leaves out a major battle ground about whether or not GLAM >>>> employees are considered paid editors or not when they venture into our >>>> world for the first time. I see AfC as one of the major threats to the >>>> English Wikipedia, and one way to combat this is to educate newbies on how >>>> to avoid it. Whenever I speak to anyone who is interested in contributing >>>> on the English Wikipedia and who also has a paid job or a volunteer >>>> position that they want to write about on Wikipedia, I first try to change >>>> their mind and try to get them to contribute to another subject first and >>>> if not that, then another project first such as Commons or Wikidata. I >>>> also always tell them 1) never edit Wikipedia from their work IP address in >>>> case someone links their onwiki interests to their job and 2) never attempt >>>> anything on English Wikipedia through AfC as it will rot there forever. I >>>> recommend they ignore the official advice to indicate their employer on >>>> their userpage, and always emphasize that their choice of username should >>>> be personal and not organization-based. In the case of volunteers this is >>>> really hard to explain and unfortunately most have to experience some form >>>> of onwiki-harassment before they get it. >>>> >>>> I personally see AfC as some sort of last-gasp effort to keep the >>>> hoards at the gate. If anything, it enforces a form of old-boys-network >>>> onboarding as people have no hope of having their contributions rescued >>>> without the help of an insider. I am an experienced Wikimedian of several >>>> projects and can wrangle my way through the most complicated templates, but >>>> I give up entirely when it comes to the jungle of AfC. Are there any >>>> numbers available on how many AfC's resulted in articles vs. submissions >>>> and then also the same numbers for non-AfC page creations vs. speedy >>>> deletions? Post creation period analysis (3, 6 and 12 months later) would >>>> be interesting to have too. My gut feeling is that AfC is busily creating a >>>> backlog we will never get through. >>>> >>>> To answer your original question, I think the reason we lack New Page >>>> Patrollers for the subjects in which they are needed at AfC is exactly the >>>> same reason why those people are being turned back at the gates - nobody >>>> currently cares about their contributions. If an AfC comes in for a soccer >>>> player, ship model or popular TV episode they are welcomed with open arms. >>>> You always get what you reward most in the end. >>>> >>>> Jane >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:28 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yesterday I gave a presentation about community policing at the >>>>> Cascadia Wikimedians' end of year event with Seattle TA3M [1][2][3]. An >>>>> issue that came up for discussion is the extent to which, on English >>>>> Wikipedia, experienced Wikipedians conducting New Page Patrol create >>>>> collateral damage during their well-intentioned efforts to protect >>>>> Wikipedia. Another subject that came up is the need for more human >>>>> resources for mentoring of newbies who create articles using the Articles >>>>> for Creation system [4]; one comment I've heard previously is that the >>>>> length of time between submission and review may be long enough for the >>>>> newbie to give up and disappear, and another comment that I've heard is >>>>> that newbies may not understand the instructions that they're given when >>>>> their article is reviewed. These comments correlate with the community >>>>> SWOT >>>>> analysis that was done at WikiConference USA this year, in which "biting >>>>> the newbies", NPP, and "onboarding/training" were identified as weaknesses >>>>> [5] >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I would like the interaction of experienced editors with >>>>> the newbies in places like NPP and AFC to look more like this >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Police_Week_May_15,_2010_on_Court_Avenue_Bridge,_Des_Moines,_Iowa,_USA-1.jpg> >>>>> and less like this >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ferguson_Day_6,_Picture_44.png>. >>>>> Granted, it's hard for a relatively small number of experienced >>>>> Wikipedians >>>>> to keep all the junk and vandals out while also mentoring the newbies and >>>>> avoiding collateral damage, so one strategy could be to increase the >>>>> quantity of skilled human resources that are devoted to these domains. Any >>>>> thoughts on how to make that happen? >>>>> >>>>> I am currently especially interested in this topic because of my IEG >>>>> project which officially starts this week. [6] It would be very helpful to >>>>> retain the new editors that are trained through these videos, so improving >>>>> editor retention via improved newbie experiences at NPP and/or AFC would >>>>> be >>>>> most welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Pine >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing >>>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_States >>>>> [3] >>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Presentations_at_Cascadia_Wikimedians_and_Seattle_TA3M_meetup,_December_2015.jpg >>>>> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation >>>>> [5] >>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SWOT_analysis_of_Wikipedia_in_2015.jpg >>>>> [6] >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Motivational_and_educational_video_to_introduce_Wikimedia >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki-research-l mailing list >> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > >
_______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
