Ah, you're assuming some automated country-detection, rather than self-identify. I see.
Lodewijk On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:59 PM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> wrote: > Everyone from China and Saudi Arabia (two countries which > systematically block wikipedia) are likely to be taking technical > measures to disguise their country. > > That's a lot of people, but I'm not sure how many editors that is. > > cheers > stuart > > -- > ...let us be heard from red core to black sky > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 07:01, L.Gelauff <lgela...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Just thinking out loud.. are we looking for actual race/ethnicity/etc > data, > > or is it rather that we're looking for whether someone belongs to an > under > > represented group in their specific situation? If it is the latter, there > > may be ways to phrase the question without asking for actual > demographics. > > > > Stuart; do you have any indication for how large a portion that group > is? I > > am aware of public pages being potentially disguised as such, but wasn't > > familiar with stories about this happening in a survey context (although > it > > does not sound implausible). > > > > Best, > > > > Lodewijk > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Another point not touched on by other commenters is that even if ideal > > > race / ethnicity question(s were developed for every country in the > > > world, users from some countries commonly disguise their country due > > > to censorship in that country, so we there would be a whole class of > > > systematic errors where we asked users the wrong country's > > > question(s). > > > > > > cheers > > > stuart > > > -- > > > ...let us be heard from red core to black sky > > > > > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 05:00, Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Adding another point from Rebecca Maung who helps run the annual > > > Community > > > > Insights surveys <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Insights > > > > > but > > > > isn't currently on this listserv so couldn't respond directly: > > > > > > > > This year's Community Insights survey (reporting scheduled for early > > > 2021) > > > > is the first that will ask Wikimedia contributors about race and > > > > ethnicity-- but only in certain geographies. Due to all the excellent > > > > points made in this thread, we have never asked a race or ethnicity > > > > question, but this year we decided to start asking locally relevant > > > > questions where we could. This year only editors in the US and > Britain > > > will > > > > see a question about race or ethnicity, tailored to their local > contexts. > > > > In the coming years, we will expand the countries and geographies > that > > > see > > > > a question like this, prioritizing places where there is a larger > editor > > > > presence and local laws and norms allow such questions. We have not > yet > > > > discussed asking about religion in the Community Insights survey. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:20 AM Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > As pointed out by others, the highly contextualized nature of > religion, > > > > > race, and ethnicity between countries makes it very difficult to > > > impossible > > > > > to craft questions that are not overly reductive but still somewhat > > > > > universal. Despite this challenge, understanding diversity in a way > > > that > > > > > captures these aspects is obviously quite important as they often > > > figure > > > > > very strongly into power and representation within history, media, > etc. > > > > > > > > > > In general, if you're looking for large-scale surveys of editors, > the > > > Meta > > > > > category (Category:Editor surveys > > > > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_surveys>) is > actually > > > > > quite complete (same for readers > > > > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Reader_surveys>). In > > > > > particular, I wrote what little I could find about these topics > into > > > this > > > > > section of our recently published knowledge gaps taxonomy: > > > > > https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.12314.pdf#subsubsection.3.1.7 > > > > > > > > > > The April 2011 editor survey took the approach of just asking > people > > > how > > > > > they felt they were different from others in the community -- this > > > specific > > > > > question is not one that I would advocate today (asking people to > > > identify > > > > > all the ways in which they may be "outsiders" is not particularly > > > > > welcoming) but this is also probably the style of approach (asking > > > people > > > > > how well they feel represented within Wikipedia content or editor > > > > > community) that you'd have to take to get information on ethnicity > / > > > race / > > > > > religion without writing country-specific questions: > > > > > > > > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Editor_Survey_Report_-_April_2011.pdf#page=65 > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:12 AM Stuart A. Yeates < > syea...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> The ethnicity / race question is an incredibly hard question to > > > > >> compose in an internationalised way. > > > > >> > > > > >> Pretty much every country in the world uses different terms and > there > > > > >> are some very confusing cases where the same term is used in > different > > > > >> countries to mean very different things (e,g, "Asian" in UK > English vs > > > > >> New Zealand English). This is derived from varying legal > definitions > > > > >> (for example blood quantum vs one-drop laws); the history of > > > > >> colonisation and waves of immigration to the country; along with > > > > >> cultural differences. > > > > >> > > > > >> cheers > > > > >> stuart > > > > >> -- > > > > >> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 21:55, Federico Leva (Nemo) < > > > nemow...@gmail.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Su-Laine Brodsky, 21/09/20 08:19: > > > > >> > > I’m wondering if any large-scale surveys have been done that > ask > > > > >> Wikipedia editors about their race, ethnicity, or religion? > > > > >> > > > > > >> > What international standards exist to phrase such questions? > > > > >> > Denominations commonly used in surveys in one country may be > > > considered > > > > >> > horrific or even illegal in others. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I see OECD considers it a difficult problem too: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ---- > > > > >> > > > > > >> > 76. Current NSOs collection practices cluster around three > broad > > > > >> > categories: 1) all OECD countries collect information on some > > > diversity > > > > >> > proxies such as country of birth (36 OECD members); 2) a small > > > majority, > > > > >> > mostly Eastern European countries, the United Kingdom and > Ireland, > > > > >> > gather additional information on race and ethnicity (16 OECD > > > members); > > > > >> > and 3) only a handful of countries in the Americas and Oceania > > > collect > > > > >> > data on indigenous identity (6 OECD members). Diversity > statistics > > > are > > > > >> > collected from the perspective of either enumerating the size > of the > > > > >> > relevant populations (typically in the census) or of comparing > > > > >> > well-being outcomes across different population groups. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > 77. While privacy and human rights legislation sometimes > prevents > > > or > > > > >> > discourages the routine collection of diversity data, the need > to > > > > >> > improve data availability and quality is being recognised in > most > > > > >> > countries. Many countries are piloting the addition of new > ethnic > > > > >> > response options to more accurately reflect the make-up of their > > > > >> > societies (e.g. Ireland, the United States), while Belgium is > > > > >> > considering allowing collection of race and ethnicity data > within > > > the > > > > >> > restrictions imposed by the national legal framework. Within the > > > > >> > European Statistical System, the inclusion of more detailed > > > migration > > > > >> > information is also being considered: The Framework Regulation > for > > > > >> > Production of European Statistics on Persons and Households > European > > > > >> > foresees the incorporation of questions on the country of birth > of > > > the > > > > >> > respondent’s parents in the Labour Force Surveys (from 2020), > the > > > > >> > European Health Interview Survey, the European Union Statistics > on > > > > >> > Income and Living Conditions, the Household Budget Surveys and > the > > > > >> > Community surveys on ICT usage in households and by > individuals. The > > > > >> > European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is pursuing its > Roma > > > and > > > > >> > Travellers Survey to collect comparable data in six selected > Member > > > > >> > States in 2018 (FRA, 2018[77]). > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ---- > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > https://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=SDD/DOC(2018)9&docLanguage=En > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Federico > > > > >> > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > > > >> > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Wiki-research-l mailing list > > > > >> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia > > > Foundation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia > Foundation > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
