Thanks everyone who’s responded with such thoughtful comments. I will look further at the "The Pipeline of Online Participation Inequalities: The Case of Wikipedia Editing” paper that Isaac referenced, which seems interesting.
I think the plans that Rebecca Maung described for the 2021 Community Insights survey are bang on. If we want to help answer the question of whether particular races or ethnicities are under-represented, it makes sense to gather the data in a form that can be compared to the general population in a country. E.g. I’d like to have data that say, “X percent of U.S.-based Wikipedia editors identify as Black, whereas according to the latest census, X percent of the U.S. general population identifies as Black.” This is more interesting than data that say, “X percent of all Wikipedia editors in the world identify as Black”. Another thought is that diversity within each Wikimedia project, not just diversity across all projects, is something people value - especially in the big projects like the English Wikipedia. So it would be helpful to see racial/ethnic identity, country of residence, and gender percentages for each project. And another thought is that while some people will be offended if you ask them about their race, other people will be offended if you put out a survey that’s intended to measure diversity and doesn’t ask anyone about their race. Cheers, Su-Laine > On Sep 21, 2020, at 1:39 PM, L.Gelauff <lgela...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ah, you're assuming some automated country-detection, rather than > self-identify. I see. > > Lodewijk > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 12:59 PM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Everyone from China and Saudi Arabia (two countries which >> systematically block wikipedia) are likely to be taking technical >> measures to disguise their country. >> >> That's a lot of people, but I'm not sure how many editors that is. >> >> cheers >> stuart >> >> -- >> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky >> >> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 07:01, L.Gelauff <lgela...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Just thinking out loud.. are we looking for actual race/ethnicity/etc >> data, >>> or is it rather that we're looking for whether someone belongs to an >> under >>> represented group in their specific situation? If it is the latter, there >>> may be ways to phrase the question without asking for actual >> demographics. >>> >>> Stuart; do you have any indication for how large a portion that group >> is? I >>> am aware of public pages being potentially disguised as such, but wasn't >>> familiar with stories about this happening in a survey context (although >> it >>> does not sound implausible). >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Lodewijk >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Another point not touched on by other commenters is that even if ideal >>>> race / ethnicity question(s were developed for every country in the >>>> world, users from some countries commonly disguise their country due >>>> to censorship in that country, so we there would be a whole class of >>>> systematic errors where we asked users the wrong country's >>>> question(s). >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> stuart >>>> -- >>>> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky >>>> >>>> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 05:00, Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Adding another point from Rebecca Maung who helps run the annual >>>> Community >>>>> Insights surveys <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Insights >>> >>>> but >>>>> isn't currently on this listserv so couldn't respond directly: >>>>> >>>>> This year's Community Insights survey (reporting scheduled for early >>>> 2021) >>>>> is the first that will ask Wikimedia contributors about race and >>>>> ethnicity-- but only in certain geographies. Due to all the excellent >>>>> points made in this thread, we have never asked a race or ethnicity >>>>> question, but this year we decided to start asking locally relevant >>>>> questions where we could. This year only editors in the US and >> Britain >>>> will >>>>> see a question about race or ethnicity, tailored to their local >> contexts. >>>>> In the coming years, we will expand the countries and geographies >> that >>>> see >>>>> a question like this, prioritizing places where there is a larger >> editor >>>>> presence and local laws and norms allow such questions. We have not >> yet >>>>> discussed asking about religion in the Community Insights survey. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:20 AM Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As pointed out by others, the highly contextualized nature of >> religion, >>>>>> race, and ethnicity between countries makes it very difficult to >>>> impossible >>>>>> to craft questions that are not overly reductive but still somewhat >>>>>> universal. Despite this challenge, understanding diversity in a way >>>> that >>>>>> captures these aspects is obviously quite important as they often >>>> figure >>>>>> very strongly into power and representation within history, media, >> etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> In general, if you're looking for large-scale surveys of editors, >> the >>>> Meta >>>>>> category (Category:Editor surveys >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_surveys>) is >> actually >>>>>> quite complete (same for readers >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Reader_surveys>). In >>>>>> particular, I wrote what little I could find about these topics >> into >>>> this >>>>>> section of our recently published knowledge gaps taxonomy: >>>>>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.12314.pdf#subsubsection.3.1.7 >>>>>> >>>>>> The April 2011 editor survey took the approach of just asking >> people >>>> how >>>>>> they felt they were different from others in the community -- this >>>> specific >>>>>> question is not one that I would advocate today (asking people to >>>> identify >>>>>> all the ways in which they may be "outsiders" is not particularly >>>>>> welcoming) but this is also probably the style of approach (asking >>>> people >>>>>> how well they feel represented within Wikipedia content or editor >>>>>> community) that you'd have to take to get information on ethnicity >> / >>>> race / >>>>>> religion without writing country-specific questions: >>>>>> >>>> >> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Editor_Survey_Report_-_April_2011.pdf#page=65 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:12 AM Stuart A. Yeates < >> syea...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The ethnicity / race question is an incredibly hard question to >>>>>>> compose in an internationalised way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pretty much every country in the world uses different terms and >> there >>>>>>> are some very confusing cases where the same term is used in >> different >>>>>>> countries to mean very different things (e,g, "Asian" in UK >> English vs >>>>>>> New Zealand English). This is derived from varying legal >> definitions >>>>>>> (for example blood quantum vs one-drop laws); the history of >>>>>>> colonisation and waves of immigration to the country; along with >>>>>>> cultural differences. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> stuart >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 21:55, Federico Leva (Nemo) < >>>> nemow...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Su-Laine Brodsky, 21/09/20 08:19: >>>>>>>>> I’m wondering if any large-scale surveys have been done that >> ask >>>>>>> Wikipedia editors about their race, ethnicity, or religion? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What international standards exist to phrase such questions? >>>>>>>> Denominations commonly used in surveys in one country may be >>>> considered >>>>>>>> horrific or even illegal in others. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I see OECD considers it a difficult problem too: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 76. Current NSOs collection practices cluster around three >> broad >>>>>>>> categories: 1) all OECD countries collect information on some >>>> diversity >>>>>>>> proxies such as country of birth (36 OECD members); 2) a small >>>> majority, >>>>>>>> mostly Eastern European countries, the United Kingdom and >> Ireland, >>>>>>>> gather additional information on race and ethnicity (16 OECD >>>> members); >>>>>>>> and 3) only a handful of countries in the Americas and Oceania >>>> collect >>>>>>>> data on indigenous identity (6 OECD members). Diversity >> statistics >>>> are >>>>>>>> collected from the perspective of either enumerating the size >> of the >>>>>>>> relevant populations (typically in the census) or of comparing >>>>>>>> well-being outcomes across different population groups. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 77. While privacy and human rights legislation sometimes >> prevents >>>> or >>>>>>>> discourages the routine collection of diversity data, the need >> to >>>>>>>> improve data availability and quality is being recognised in >> most >>>>>>>> countries. Many countries are piloting the addition of new >> ethnic >>>>>>>> response options to more accurately reflect the make-up of their >>>>>>>> societies (e.g. Ireland, the United States), while Belgium is >>>>>>>> considering allowing collection of race and ethnicity data >> within >>>> the >>>>>>>> restrictions imposed by the national legal framework. Within the >>>>>>>> European Statistical System, the inclusion of more detailed >>>> migration >>>>>>>> information is also being considered: The Framework Regulation >> for >>>>>>>> Production of European Statistics on Persons and Households >> European >>>>>>>> foresees the incorporation of questions on the country of birth >> of >>>> the >>>>>>>> respondent’s parents in the Labour Force Surveys (from 2020), >> the >>>>>>>> European Health Interview Survey, the European Union Statistics >> on >>>>>>>> Income and Living Conditions, the Household Budget Surveys and >> the >>>>>>>> Community surveys on ICT usage in households and by >> individuals. The >>>>>>>> European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is pursuing its >> Roma >>>> and >>>>>>>> Travellers Survey to collect comparable data in six selected >> Member >>>>>>>> States in 2018 (FRA, 2018[77]). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> https://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=SDD/DOC(2018)9&docLanguage=En >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Federico >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>>>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia >>>> Foundation >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia >> Foundation >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list >>> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
