Hi Simon, In text below
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM, simonfj <simo...@cols.com.au> wrote: > Dear Wayne, > > Thanks with your patience. This is the last long rave from me. The > next ones will be about scoping a (sustainable) proof-of-concept > project for funding, to address "some challenges". Call them "Grand > Challenges". See slide 7 of Jan Bakker's presentation at this > European Network manager's meeting. > http://www.terena.org/activities/tf-msp/meetings/20110301/ > > Jan works for a subsidiary of the surffoundation. It seems to be, on a > National basis, what you will be aiming for on a Global one with the > OER foundation. I need to clarify my thinking a bit more, so bear with > me. > > I'm a little lost as to why you might feel, after recording an event > or blogging a conference, there would be any reason to "assert > copyright". If, as one example, Sir John were simply to open a blog > with a cc license, as many lecturers do, and attach all his > presentation materials, there would no reason for us to even be having > this conversation. You'd just point, directly, after and before > events, to the horse's mouth. > All rights reserved Copyright is asserted as a default -- So for example, Sir John does not blog with a default CC-BY or CC-BY-SA license. The default license used by the Commonwealth of Learning is all rights reserved. This is why its important to educate educators about the legal tools and options for granting permissions. > > Admittedly, I am no lawyer, although I have worked in most positions > of the "professional media". OERers are trying to encourage "Creative > Commons by default". Surely this is a governmental exercise, not one > for universities. All they can do is hope that, as an instrument of A > government, the laws may be changed in their jurisdiction. > Well, national copyright laws determine the default ownership of Copyright (mostly under the paramaters of the Berne Convention.) . It most instances, creative works produced under employment belong to the employer (unless there are contractual exceptions.) I would argue that OER and corresponding copyright is the responsibility of universities, colleges and polytechnics. As owners of the copyright of the teaching materials produced through employment, they have the authority to change IP policies in support of OER. Its highly unlikely that governments will intervene with the autonomy of universities. > I'm just looking through the list of governments who have enabled this > legislation (after Googling "creative common by default"). It's a nice > evolution to watch. But Governments just confirm (eventually) what > their institutional members are thinking or/and doing. Policy (change) > follows Practice; not vice versa. No? > Yes, in government circles, policy does tend to follow practice. However there are leading examples from progressive governments who are moving forward in opening up copyright - -see for example NZGOAL: http://www.e.govt.nz/policy/nzgoal > > In practical terms, policy won't change the habits of (E.g.) > Institutional librarians to pay hundreds of millions of dollars per > year to buy back the aggregations of their (research) authors from > third party publishers. Nor does it stop Institutional librarians > taking money from their National governments, at different times, to > try and aggregate "their" author's materials on the same basis as "the > third party" publishers. Most countries can boast this kind of > stillborn attempt at progress = http://www.arrow.edu.au/ They die > because the projects are National. > There is already, in my view, a critical mass of openly licensed materials to make a start. The OERu will be targeting qualifications based solely on OER. Institutions will have a choice - -spending millions of dollars protecting closed resources, or reinvesting a small percentage in OER to improve the sustainability of education. > > In "the learning part of the equation", the problem unis have is they > are Nationally-centric/funded institutions in a Globalizing world. We > also know the progressives within them, like P2P, OCWC, WE, etc, are > pushing their National envelopes into the Global space and searching > for a sustainable business model. So surely, if "professional > educators" are attempting to "add value" in this global space, we > could encourage more progress by helping our old National institutions > learn how to solve their (own) aggregation/dissemination problem. (As > Jan Bakker suggests). > Universities have been working internationally since medieval times --> consider the exchange of scholars between Bolgne and Oxford. I agree that in a digital world, international collaboration is easier. I believe that opening up restrictive copyright combined with open and editable file formats will be enough to trigger global learning space where we can provide free learning to all students worldwide in a sustainable way. > > The talk in the uni's network managers' space is reaching towards a > new networking model - we can call it Federated Sign On (to a) Cloud. > This means that the WE's of the world will log on to their country's > institutional networks (NREN) as members of various global groups; > whose member institutions share reciprocal rights and apps (which are > called "common services" by their techs). It is to "common services" > what the wiki model is to "common content". > The Cloud is the way things are going and we host WE in the cloud. This must be combined with open intellectual property policies to ensure organic and sustainable growth. > > The two developments are now beginning to focus on the need for a > "common directory". And just reading through this thread, > > http://groups.google.com/group/oer-university/browse_thread/thread/ce0658f1954e59fa# > , > it's pretty clear that this directory will be pointing to online > environments which have global groups of "subject-matter experts" at > their core. > > I don't think we necessarily need a "common directory" --> what we need is a multitude of directories which can talk seamlessly with one another. OER wants to be free -- it doesn't care which repository or directory references it. > The economics of OER are obvious. As you say "If ten institutions > collaborate on this course development using existing OER and filling > the gaps, it is cheaper than doing this alone". So you can imagine how > surprised I was to see Sarah Stewart trying to come to terms with a > "sustainability model". She hasn't a global team to work with that can > support development of the "whole program". I would have thought that, > after the Dunedin meeting, Sarah would have been introduced to her > peers at the "anchor institutions", so they could figure out on what > basis they would share the load, in growing an online community, > developing/sharing the courseware & recognizing institutional > credentials. (or issuing consortia credentials). > That's a good example -- in the case of Otago Polytechnic, the default IP license is CC-BY. Therefore all Sarah's outputs are openly licensed and will contribute back to the sustainability of the ecosystem. The are multiple levels of sustainability, individual level, course level, institutional level, national and global. The OERu is working at the global level --> Sarah's work will contribute to what we are aiming to achieve and the global work of OERu will help Sarah achieve her objectives. Remember that Otago Polytechnic is an anchor partner in the OERu and so the institution is connected with its global peers. > > OK. Enough. I have a meeting next week with aarnet's technical and > apps manager. We'll be talking through how global NREN groups can > share this tool for no cost. http://vivu.tv/vivuweb/products/vucast/ > Aarnet have a development relationship with vivu, which has legs as > long as we can get a few other NRENs involved. So if you could list > the countries in the OERU camp, on this thread (or point to it), at > the moment that would be great. India would be an important one as > vivu has an Indian node, and the developing world has different > needs. > > Hopefully, we'll find out how the informal (Global) and formal > (National) institutions come together and coalesce. > My best, simon > > That is going to happen with OERu -- watch this space. W > > > > > > > On Mar 17, 1:07 pm, Wayne Mackintosh <mackintosh.wa...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi Simon, > > > > > > However, the matter is not as simple as filming a conference presentation > > and asserting copyright on the recording. In many civil law countries, > there > > is not necessarily a requirement for the creative work to be in a fixed > > format. In these countries, copyright protection will take place from the > > moment the performance is given, defaults to all rights reserved and > > therefore legally cannot filmed in a way where the person pointing the > > camera gets copyright. Typically the professional media are afforded > certain > > privileges when reporting live events in their respective national > copyright > > legislations. > > > > The problem we have in a digital age is that there is no requirement to > > assert copyright and it defaults to all rights reserved. In a digital > age, > > the scenario should be reversed - -eg the default should be public > domain, > > but if you want to assert copyright, you would be required to do so. We > > don't have this -- hence the work of projects like WE, OERu etc. > > > > I'm not sure that many universities would necessarily agree with your > > assertions that they are all about teaching. Many institutions invest > > considerable time, energy and dollars into the learning part of the > > equation. While there are many opportunities to learn on the open web -- > a > > university credential still carries token value by society and the > economy. > > It gets people real jobs in the real world. > > > > That's not to say the folk don't learn in "informal" settings. For > example, > > the best free software coders out there have earned their stripes through > a > > system of meritocracy in their respective communities. There are many > > exciting learning projects like the DIY U and P2PU projects which are > > pushing the envelope. This must be encouraged because it adds > considerable > > value to the OER ecosystem. > > > > However the focus of WE, the OER Foundation, the OERu is to see how we in > > the formal sector can add value to this evolving ecosystem. WE must > > recognise our limitations and core competencies. WE are predominantly a > > formal education sector initiative working in the OER space. That's what > we > > do well and where we focus our energies. > > > > Cheers > > Wayne > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 2:13 PM, simonfj <simo...@cols.com.au> wrote: > > > Thanks Wayne, > > > > > You know I'm not sure if you realize that you keep pointing at the > > > obvious problem every uni has; "sorry we don't control the IP of > > > external publishers". It's not "external publishers" IP of course. It > > > belongs to the people who (in this case, are trying to encourage) unis > > > to "open their minds". > > > > > Uni researchers (in particular) must pay, via their institutional > > > librarians, to access the aggregations of publishers, which are, after > > > all, simply convenient databases of different unis' authors put > > > together on some global basis by a publisher. It's not as though (with > > > all the technology inside NRENs) they are necessary. Even the peer > > > review is usually done by an author's global mates. Publishers simply > > > take advantage of the unis' lack of imagination. > > > > > Anyone these days can open up any closed situation by taking a > > > handycam and computer (with wireless access) along, or even just blog > > > a conference. So WE know there's simply no need to have a reporter > > > between "the live" and "the report". That's why the commercial media > > > news comes to us via five global gateways these days. (AAP, Reuters, > > > Thomson, etc). It's the only profitable way of wrapping advertising > > > around "the content". (which is there to separate the ads) Publicly > > > funded media is just having a hard time reinventing itself. > > > > > Ultimately, WE all just want a place in fixed cyberspace (a url) where > > > we know "our disciplinary/subject specific mates get together for a > > > natter or a conference; where anything which is covered by a > > > particular global group can be streamed live as well as preserved for > > > the long term. And if WE do it sociably, the "space" is bound to > > > attract a global community of interest. QED = WE. The need for a > > > directory is obvious. But professional curators and professional > > > network managers are simply too busy to actually concentrate "their" > > > users. > > > > > So let's admit to ourselves that this has nothing to do with "unis > > > being open minded". Even if such a stupid comment could be understood > > > - unis don't think, the people inside them do - we already know that > > > they are open minded. WE prove that. The problem is simply that WE > > > don't aggregate "our content" on the basis of "our" global group. It's > > > still about trying to gain credibility by saying. "I come from xxx > > > institution." And new institution never begins like that. > > > N.B Where institution has this meaning. > > >http://orweblog.oclc.org/archives/002154.html > > > > > WE should also keep in mind that many uni students, after they have > > > been handed a piece of paper by their uni, go back to their video > > > games and employment queue. The number is 40% in south europe, and > > > rising. Few have curricula which can keep up with the demand for new > > > skills and techniques. E.g. No uni runs a course for employment > > > network design. That's done by companies like Cisco who are > > > reinventing technology daily. So the old .edu institutions are > > > becoming less relevant. > > > > > From what I can see, very few edu institutions focus on "the > > > learning". It's all about "teaching" - and the two are opposite poles. > > > One's done in classroom, the other in a library. No guesses for which > > > one is (done in) which. > > > > > On Mar 15, 8:53 am, Wayne Mackintosh <mackintosh.wa...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > More international coverage on the OER university. > > > > > > Following Sir John's keynote address in Sydney on 8 March where he > > > referred > > > > to the OER university <http://wikieducator.org/OER_university/Home> > as > > > > making the original "examination only" concept look extremely modern > and > > > a > > > > system that would reduce the cost of higher education dramatically > (see: > > > > http://www.col.org/resources/speeches/2011presentation/Pages/2011-03-...), > > > > the Campus Review, Australia has published the following article: > > > > > > Universities need to open minds on digital learning and > > > > teaching< > > >http://www.campusreview.com.au/pages/section/article.php?s=News&idArt.. > .> > > > > . > > > > > > (Unfortunately to read the article -- you will need to register for a > > > free > > > > online trial of Campus Review -- sorry we don't control the IP of > > > external > > > > publishers.) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Wayne > > > > -- > > > > Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. > > > > Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org> > > > > Director, International Centre for Open Education, > > > > Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. > > > > Founder and elected Community Council Member, > > > > WikiEducator<http://www.wikieducator.org> > > > > Mobile+64 21 2436 380begin_of_the_skype_highlighting > +64 21 > > > 2436 380 end_of_the_skype_highlighting > > > > Skype: WGMNZ1 > > > > Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/Mackiwg> | > > > > identi.ca<http://identi.ca/waynemackintosh> > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > > > To visit wikieducator:http://www.wikieducator.org > > > To visit the discussion forum: > http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > > > To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > > -- > > Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. > > Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org> > > Director, International Centre for Open Education, > > Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. > > Founder and elected Community Council Member, > > WikiEducator<http://www.wikieducator.org> > > Mobile+64 21 2436 380begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +64 21 > 2436 380 end_of_the_skype_highlighting > > Skype: WGMNZ1 > > Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/Mackiwg> | > > identi.ca<http://identi.ca/waynemackintosh> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "WikiEducator" group. > To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org > To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator > To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > -- Wayne Mackintosh <http://wikieducator.org/User:Mackiwg>, Ph.D. Director OER Foundation <http://www.oerfoundation.org> Director, International Centre for Open Education, Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. Founder and elected Community Council Member, WikiEducator<http://www.wikieducator.org> Mobile +64 21 2436 380 Skype: WGMNZ1 Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/Mackiwg> | identi.ca<http://identi.ca/waynemackintosh> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
