On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:47 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote: > <<In a message dated 12/17/2008 12:45:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > snowspin...@gmail.com writes: > > that nobody who has actually > read the novel would dispute is true, even if it is not on the level > of obvious description>> > > Well then there you go. > You have just recited policy, so go and do it. > If nobody with an understanding of it, would dispute it, then make > it so!
You seem to be ignoring the fact that people are perfectly happy to remove claims they agree with because some hypothetical, imagined person might find them non-obvious. The current interpretation of NOR - which you will find frequently stated on the talk page in the version of this debate going on there is... well, let me find you a quote. "What you are saying is that some novels require some degree of interpretation in order to discuss their plot. I have no problm with that. However, in those circumstances, we need to cite a reliable secondary source for that interpretation, and not interject our own interpretation. That is the heart of WP:NOR." "ll that we should be focused on in presenting a work of fiction is the "facts" - the fundamental plot, characters, and those aspects" And "Keeping with your earlier example, you stated it is widely known in this particular work, the narrator was being deceptive. My response to you would be if the content has some truly encyclopedic value to it, it should not be entirely that difficult in obtaining a reliable secondary source that supports it." Clearly, as it stands, NOR either supports this approach, or is so badly written as to lead people to believe that this approach is acceptable. Much of this stems from the language in question. I remind you, as it stands, the policy reads: "Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. Without a secondary source, a primary source may be used only to make descriptive claims, the accuracy of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages from the novel to describe the plot, but any interpretation of those passages needs a secondary source." The phrases that lead against the Stilson situation being described accurately are "Any interpretation," and "used only to make descriptive claims." The claim that it is slowly made clear to both the reader and Ender that Ender killed Stilson is an interpretation, and it is not "only descriptive." But, on the other hand, it is also brain-searingly obvious. And this is the problem. "Not an interpretation but a description" and "brain-searingly obvious" are not actually equivalent sets. -Phil _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
