"how can you help" yeah, you didn't get. -> "you are not welcome"... I can't do this kind of things, you can (I think).
Something is going wrong, the community is losing space for a programme imposed by the WMF to Brazil. And this is not just me that are saying that, i.e.: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment%2FBad_usage_of_money_in_Brazil&diff=8709365&oldid=8683364 And this is a request for a comment, not a "stop the machines", is a "what do you think about this spends?", "it's ok they use the donation money in this way?", because I have a bias on this, I'm the guy how look this idea in 2011 and predicted the community losing space to the Programme, and this crazy no optimized uses of money, maybe the answer is "it's ok", "yeah, Brazilians volunteers are not capable do to this type of activities, let the professionals do" (I already received this one)... Just one think, why are you concerning about the efficiency of my questions, but not if the spendings? "3 times more money, plus 100 times more people, why we can't expect at least 10 times more?" Obs: I get you, and I really think that you are right, but this is not for all situations; and this one, that staffs are making funny of volunteers, using money without not even concerning about the communities thoughts, without any data about this money, and using a fake flag saying that this a community activity... this a think to stop for a moment and say "well, this is ok?" Xoxo On 31 May 2014 21:14, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > Hi Rodrigo, > > asking questions about a WLM competition would be the right time now > indeed. But then you should phrase your questions that way: are they still > planning to organize a WLM, how can you help them and what are they > planning budget/prize wise. You could also suggest to plan an evaluation > moment between those two, to evaluate for example the prizes. > > Whether it is a chapter, WMF project or something else shouldn't matter (if > it does, it usually is a sign something goes wrong). > > I'm just saying that complaining about the WLE competition right now is > unhelpful - nothing is going to change anyway because the competition is > already underway. In that case, it is more effective to wait until it is > finished so that you can evaluate, and learn from it. You could focus right > now on formulating questions to ask during evaluation. If you share those > in advance, people can already think a bit about them. > > This is not a matter of caring or not caring - this is a matter of being > effective and efficient. > > Best, > Lodewijk > > > 2014-06-01 2:06 GMT+02:00 Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton < > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com>: > > > Well Lodewijk, they announce the values during the WLE, not before to > > discuss (I wrote that in Meta), and more, they are trying to do a event > > after the WLE that will cost ~9000 USD. > > And they promised to do a WLM too, how much money they will spend on that > > too. Furthermore, I tried to do in the soft way, asking they in the page > of > > the event, they blocked my for no reason, the reason given was "you are > not > > welcome"... > > > > Remember, this is not a Wikimedia Chapter, this is the Brazil Program > (WMF > > project) the are doing this event, without accountability, discussion > with > > any community, transparency... > > > > We could not do that before because they did had not opened how much they > > would spend, and we can't wait moths to do, because we are not that far > > from WLM, and always have some guys saying "this already go, doesn't > > matter"... > > > > If we do not care, who will care? > > > > > > On 31 May 2014 06:37, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote: > > > > > Dear Rodrigo, > > > > > > As you probably realize, the Wiki Loves Earth competition is ongoing > > > already - and it is highly unlikely that things will change /during/ > the > > > competition. Raising this right now, in this aggressive way (not going > > > towards a solution) is primarily obstructive. > > > > > > What would be much more constructive is if you either decide to invest > > your > > > effort in making this investment worth while (increase the impact), or > to > > > help during the evaluation/next time's organization. That way you can > > > actually impact the way money is being spent, and volunteers are being > > > empowered effectively. > > > > > > Unless I'm missing something (what you're actually trying to > accomplish) > > > this is probably the least impactful moment to have this discussion - a > > few > > > months earlier or later would have been. > > > > > > Best, > > > Lodewijk > > > > > > > > > 2014-05-31 3:50 GMT+02:00 Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton < > > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com>: > > > > > > > "way the topic was raised." funny > > > > > > > > Thank you Jaime Anstee, Lodewijk for the explanation and context. > > > > > > > > I don't if Mr. Alvarenga can see, but "I don't criticize the > > organizers, > > > > they are newbies in the Wikimedia movement", is one of the main > > problems > > > > here, why they can have the power spend this money without > consulting, > > > your > > > > point increase the size of this issue, if they don't know what they > are > > > > doing, why they can manage/access this quantity of money? > > > > And find for me photo contest in Brazil manage by NGOs without > partners > > > > that hits this quantity of money, and this is just the prize, the > whole > > > > contest was evaluated in 30'850,00 reais ~14'000.00 dollars... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 30 May 2014 15:18, Everton Zanella Alvarenga < > > > > everton.alvare...@okfn.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea about the prizes for other places to compare, but I > > > > > must say 10k reais (~5k USD) is a small amount of money for the > value > > > > > generate by this type of competition, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > At the moment I am running through the organization I coordinate a > > > > > challenge which will give prizes of this order, although we won't > > give > > > > > it in cash, but a trip to Open Knowledge Festival > > > > > <http://2014.okfestival.org/> next July, books and games, all > > > > > catalysing the creative use of technology and free software. And > this > > > > > is from a very tiny organization 6 month old. > > > > > > > > > > The results from this competition led by the education program > > > > > coordinator in Brazil seems good so far. I think one thing that > could > > > > > be improved was to consult the community in a more open way to > avoid > > > > > the actual wikidramas and I tend not to like prizes in cash, but > > > > > simbolic one, like a trip to Wikimania would make much more sense > for > > > > > me or some prize related to photograph. > > > > > > > > > > I don't criticize the organizers, they are newbies in the Wikimedia > > > > > movement and let's assume good faith, but I think it's a good > > > > > opportunity to discuss the issue globally, although the way the > topic > > > > > was raised. > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton > > > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com > > > > +55 11 979 718 884 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton > > rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com > > +55 11 979 718 884 > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com +55 11 979 718 884 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
