As a reminder: IRC is governed by Freenode. Channels can have their own rules, and there are widely varying systems of internal governance for Wikimedia IRC channels. I think it's important to note that WMF and the Wikimedia community are guests on Freenode, and I'm uncomfortable with the proposition to extend a WMF policy into IRC channels without explicit consent from the ops of those channels; it seems to me that the TCC would be a per-channel opt-in on IRC, not a WMF blanket standard.
Speaking more generally, I am wary of WMF encroachment into what I should be fundamentally community-governed spaces. I have not heard a lot of objections from the community to the proposed technical code of conduct, and I've heard some arguments for and against the rationale for having it; my main concern is that I would prefer that the final document be ratified through community-led processes. Thanks, Pine On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Matthew Flaschen <mflasc...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > On 11/17/2016 04:57 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > >> I would love to have a broader discussion about communication in the >> projects more generally. As you know, we currently have a few mechanisms >> (and please correct any mischaracterizations in the below): >> > > As people may know, we are working on a Code of conduct for technical > spaces. > > It will cover on-wiki communication in the technical spaces (including > talk pages), technical mailing lists, technical IRC channels, and > Phabricator (including Conpherence). > > There are some existing guidelines in place. It's a very fragmented > picture (most guidelines only apply to one form of communication (e.g. > IRC), and sometimes only a single IRC channel), which is part of what the > tech CoC will improve. I also don't necessarily endorse these older > guidelines. > > * Conversation in the Talk: namespace (either in raw wikitext or Flow) >> - This is archived, and presumably subject to same code of conduct >> guidelines as parent wiki. It is public. Anonymous/IP editors are >> allowed. >> > > Worth remembering that many important projects don't *have* a code of > conduct or equivalent, and on those that do, it's often not enforced. > > * Echo >> - Unarchived transient notifications, very restricted by design. >> Could >> be made more general (but see below). >> > > Right, this not a user-user communication system (though it will notify > you *of* user-user communications, sometimes with snippets included). > > * Phabricator >> - Archived task-oriented discussions, leaving to a desired outcome. >> Anonymous participation disallowed. Search possible in theory; in >> practice >> the implementation is quite limited. Some (security-sensitive) >> conversations can be private, but (AFAIK) an ordinary user does not have a >> means to create a private conversation. I'm not aware of an explicit code >> of conduct. >> > > Conpherence allows either public or private conversations. > > There are currently guidelines (https://www.mediawiki.org/wik > i/Bug_management/Phabricator_etiquette). The Code of Conduct for > technical spaces will cover Phabricator as well. > > We have no comprehensive code of conduct/mechanisms to combat harassment, >> vandalism, and abuse. Harassment or vandalism which is stopped in one >> communication mechanism can be transferred to another with impunity. IRC >> in particular is seen as a space where (a) private discussions can happen >> (good), but (b) there are no cops or consequences. >> > > Yeah, I agree this is an issue, and is why the technical code of conduct > will have one central reporting place (so you always know where to report, > and they can consider multi-space harassment). > > This is important stuff. Thank you for talking and thinking about it. > > Matt Flaschen > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
