I'm not convinced of the problem. The WMF global bans are designed to step in where community processes would not be appropriate. From their page on Meta: "global bans are carried out ... to address multi-project misconduct, to help ensure the trust and safety of the users of all Wikimedia sites, or to assist in preventing prohibited behavior". The last two reasons should not be dealt with by the community; our volunteers do not have the resources, qualifications, or liability required to deal with them. But perhaps "multi-project misconduct" could be handled by the WMF differently. Instead of imposing a WMF ban, they could build a case for a community ban, and follow that process instead. As I said though, I'm not convinced that there is a problem with how things are done currently. Some things shouldn't be handled by community governance.
Adrian Raddatz On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > How would you suggest modifying the process so that it is compatible with > community governance? Note that while I'm dissatisfied with the system that > is in place now, I doubt that there will be a perfect solution that is free > from all possible criticism and drama. I would give the current system a > grade of "C-" for transparency and a grade of "F" for its compatibility > with community governance. I don't expect ether grade to get to an "A", but > I would be satisfied with "B" for transparency and "B+" for community > governance. > > > > Pine > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Wikimedia isn't a country, the global ban policy isn't a law. Any such > > metaphors are honestly a bit ridiculous. The WMF bans are, for the most > > part, sensitive. And that means that they all need to be, because if you > > have a list of reasons that you can disclose, then any bans without > comment > > are going to be on a very short list of quite serious reasons. Plus, the > > ones without a reason would still have the "wikipediocracy-lite" crowd > that > > seems to dominate this list in a fuss. > > > > It's also worth noting that the WMF provides some basic details of global > > bans to certain trusted community groups. The issue isn't with > disclosure, > > it's with mass disclosure. > > > > On Feb 17, 2017 11:09 AM, "Pine W" <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I am glad to hear that WMF global bans are processed through multiple > > > people. Still, I am deeply uncomfortable with the lack of community > > > involvement in this process as well as the lack of transparency. In the > > US > > > we don't trust professional law enforcement agencies to make decisions > > > about who should go to jail without giving the accused the right to a > > trial > > > by a jury of their peers. Unless we have lost faith in peer governance > > > (which would be a radical break with open source philosophy) I think it > > is > > > both unwise and inappropriate to have "the professionals" make these > > > decisions behind closed doors and with zero community involvement in > the > > > process. > > > > > > I am in favor of professionals working on investigations, and in > > > enforcement of community decisions to ban *after* those decisions have > > been > > > made by the community through some meaningful due process. I oppose > > letting > > > "the professionals" decide among themselves who should be banned. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
