I'd wouldnt call the current practice detrimental to our mission, nor would see english wikipedia as a bad influence for without en.wp we would have no global recognition, no movement, no funding and no need for a strategy process. English language communities are also our most diverse projects
On 25 June 2017 at 18:03, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > Now that we apparently all agree that this is a diversity issue. An issue > where the current practice is detrimental to our mission, what are we going > to do about it? Just accepting it means that we do not take our mission > seriously. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 25 June 2017 at 08:45, Rogol Domedonfors <domedonf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > This is not surprising, when the Foundation and all the external > > consultants advising it on this exercise are all US-based. > > > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Leinonen Teemu <teemu.leino...@aalto.fi > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hej, > > > > > > Gerard made some very important points. My observation (not an opinion > > :-) > > > is also that the initiatives in, and with a focus on, global south are > > > under served. They are more difficult to do, because of various > reasons, > > > but this should not be a reason not to do them. It is also true that > > large > > > majority of research on Wikipedia/Wikimedia is about the en-Wikipedia. > If > > > WMF could do something to promote research looking beyond it would be > > > great. > > > > > > -Teemu > > > > > > > Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> kirjoitti 24.6.2017 > kello > > > 13.00: > > > > > > > > Hoi, > > > > The one serious flaw of the current practice is that English > Wikipedia > > > > receives more attention than it deserves based on its merits[1]. This > > > bias > > > > can be found in any and all areas. There is for instance a huge > > > educational > > > > effort going on for English and there is no strategy known, > developed, > > > > tried to use education to grow a Wikipedia from nothing to 100.000 > > > > articles.. the number considered to be necessary by some to have a > > viable > > > > Wikipedia. When you consider research it is English Wikipedia because > > > > otherwise it will not get published [2]. > > > > > > > > A less serious flaw is that the WMF is an indifferent custodian of > > > projects > > > > other than Wikipedia. When it provides no service to Wikipedia like > > > > Wikisource, its intrinsic value is not realised to the potential > > readers > > > > that are made available. There is no staff dedicated to these > projects > > > and > > > > there is no research into its value. > > > > > > > > The angst for the community means that there is hardly any > > collaboration > > > > between the different Wikipedias. Mostly the "solutions" of English > > > > Wikipedia are imposed. There are a few well trodden paths that > > habitually > > > > get attention. When it comes to diversity, the gender gap is well > > served > > > > but the global south is not. A lot of weight is given to a data > driven > > > > approach but there is hardly enough data relevant to the global south > > in > > > > English Wikipedia to make such an approach viable. > > > > > > > > Yes, I have tried to get some attention for these issues in the > process > > > so > > > > far but <grin> as bringer of the bad news I am happy that it is the > > > message > > > > and not the messenger who is killed </grin>. > > > > > > > > Please tell me I am wrong and proof it by using more than opinions. > > > > Thanks, > > > > GerardM > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] less than 30% of the world populace and less than 50% of the WMF > > > > traffic. > > > > [2] comment by a professor whose university does a lot of studies on > > > > Wikipedia.. > > > > > > > >> On 24 June 2017 at 12:33, Yaroslav Blanter <ymb...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Strainu <strain...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> 2017-06-23 23:48 GMT+03:00 Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>: > > > >>>> Could you elaborate on the benefits of this timetable change for > > > people > > > >>> who > > > >>>> are not involved with affiliates? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Starting from this assumption, and considering the fact that even > the > > > >>> most active wikimedians (not involved in a chapter) have real life > > > >>> commitments that do not allow them to follow this process > carefully, > > > >>> it is obvious that the main responsibility of the team that > > > >>> coordinates the process should have been outreach. In my particular > > > >>> geographic area, Track B contributors were engaged with only 2 > weeks > > > >>> prior to the end of the last cycle, which is hardly enough time to > > > >>> read, understand, and think about the vast quantity of material > > > >>> available in the strategy process. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> I am an active Wikimedia not involved in a Chapter. In Round 1, I > was > > > >> pretty active, and in the Russian Wikivoyage we collected quite some > > > >> feedback and translated it into English. It was essentially ignored. > > > None > > > >> of us participated in Round 2 since we thought it is a waste of > time. > > > Round > > > >> 2 was organized in the same way as Round 1 (many discussions opened > i > > n > > > >> different places, meaning there is no possibility to really discuss > > > >> anything, merely to leave one's opinion). I have corresponding pages > > on > > > 3 > > > >> projects on my watchlists (with is 15 pages, and this is a lot), > but I > > > have > > > >> not seen in these discussions anything new not said before in Round > 1. > > > May > > > >> be smth useful would come out from other tracks, but I am not really > > > >> looking forward to Track B Round 3 either. I believe it is > completely > > > >> failed, and individual contributors did not have a chance to form a > > > >> considated opinion. The message for me is essentially: If you want > to > > be > > > >> heard, find a chapter or a thematic organization first. I hope the > > next > > > >> process will be organized differently in 10 years from now. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers > > > >> Yaroslav > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- GN. 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