No, _verifiability_ can't be different, but _acceptance_ of oral sources can be different.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbel...@wikimedia.ca > wrote: > Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources. > > JP > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create > > something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content policies. > > Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view. > > The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects > rewrite > > world history to focus on their own local view. > > > > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's > culture > > is > > > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies. > > > > > > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_, > but > > > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content. > > > > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are > > > highly > > > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies. > > > > Armenian genocide for example. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being > global > > > > > http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract > > > > > > > > > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture > and > > > the > > > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on article > > > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research > analysis > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > number of images, references, internal links, external links, > > words, > > > > and > > > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured > > > articles > > > > on > > > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of > > > > approaches > > > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate > > that > > > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not > globally > > > > > shared > > > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence > > determines > > > > > what > > > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for > > encyclopedic > > > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for > > encyclopedic > > > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but local > > and > > > > very > > > > > > subjective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version... > > > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be > pf > > > much > > > > > > importance > > > > > > Ziko > > > > > > > > > > > > John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 > um > > > > > 14:42: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five pillars are moot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the > > > ability > > > > to > > > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the > > > community > > > > > that > > > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity > for > > > > > banned > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that > > are > > > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them > > the > > > > best > > > > > > > guide > > > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes > live, > > > > ince a > > > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its > community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the > > > projects, > > > > > but > > > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community > spends > > a > > > > lot > > > > > of > > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad < > jeb...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the > maintenance > > > and > > > > > > > > process, > > > > > > > > > not increase them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu < > > strain...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board > > > > resolution, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with > > little > > > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff > > from > > > > > > en.wp. > > > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta > on > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not > have, > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to > implement, > > > let > > > > > > alone > > > > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule > > > pushing > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > local context. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, > > just > > > as > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community > > about > > > > it. > > > > > > > Even > > > > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the > community > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve > > > > differently > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying > > to > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult > > for > > > > > small > > > > > > > > > > communities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strainu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad < > > > jeb...@gmail.com > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same > core > > > > > content > > > > > > > > > > policies, > > > > > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, > because > > a > > > > lot > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only > > partial > > > > > > > policies. > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them > > > > > updated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies > should > > > not > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, > they > > > > should > > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central > > > > > policies > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > localized if necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/The_no_original_research_ > > > > > > policy > > > > > > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Neutral_point_of_view > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make > > some > > > > > sound > > > > > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to > > refine > > > > > those? > > > > > > > > > Perhaps > > > > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no > > > original > > > > > > > > research" > > > > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It > > should > > > > be > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at > > > some > > > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from > > > > creators > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > view"… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if > those > > > > > baseline > > > > > > > > > > policies > > > > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like > > > central > > > > > > user > > > > > > > > > pages, > > > > > > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the > > > > projects > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, > > > > > > Wikibooks, > > > > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeblad > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > GN. > > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > > > unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > GN. > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GN. > > > President Wikimedia Australia > > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: 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