In my view it has not that much to do with AGF. In general people at Commons do assume good faith, or at least they should. But when an user uploads a mix of own work with copyvios, or a GLAM shows a complete lack of understanding on copyright laws (by uploading modern art, for instance, claiming that they own the paintings, so the copyright is theirs), in those situations, use of the AGF principle is not possible, and the Precautionary Principle enters the scene. In those situations it is common that the baby gets thrown out with the bath water, which, IMO, is understandable and expectable. In any case, whatever gets wrongly deleted in those situations can be recovered afterwards.
Best, Paulo Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> escreveu no dia segunda, 13/05/2019 à(s) 08:03: > The precautionary principle is labelled as an official policy of Commons. > I think it should be mentioned on the assume good faith page as it explains > why it is sometimes impractical to assume good faith to the extent of > allowing content to remain. If not mentioned, it can lead to severe > disappointment and surprise. It should be made very clear to anyone who > uploads that this policy may be applied, and why it is necessary. It would > also be useful to explain what to do if it is applied where it should not > be applied, whether from lack of evidence or for any other reason, and how > to avoid the problem. > It might even be advisable to state this policy clearly in the upload > wizard. When people have been reasonably warned, they are less likely to be > offended. > Cheers, > Peter Southwood > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Yann Forget > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2019 6:10 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > This was reverted. It is a dishonest edit with a misleading summary. > > Regards, > Yann > Jai Jagat 2020 Grand March Coordinator > https://www.jaijagat2020.org/ > +91-74 34 93 33 58 (also WhatsApp) > > > > Le dim. 12 mai 2019 à 19:59, Andrew Lih <andrew....@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > This episode exposes a policy of Commons that may be unknown to many > folks > > - the precautionary principle. > > > > It is an explicit exception to assuming good faith, so I noted this on > the > > AGF page on Commons. > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Assume_good_faith&oldid=prev&diff=349650525 > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:23 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < > > galder...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > As I am the author of the post, some remarks: > > > > > > * Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of > > the > > > Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is > > > unfair and nonsense. > > > * Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to > > think > > > on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to > > > convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know > > how > > > to communicate and why they must do it. > > > * The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the > > > author. Period. > > > * Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which > > is > > > the original work is not a good practice. > > > * Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great > > > job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this > can > > > take a whole year of volunteer work. > > > * After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was > > able > > > to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone. > > > > > > Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have > > less > > > problems. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Galder > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf > of > > > Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach > > > > > > I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images > > on > > > commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come > > from > > > cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work. > > > > > > Vito > > > > > > Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman < > jmh...@gmail.com > > > > > > ha scritto: > > > > > > > It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested > in > > > > having more admins? > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for > > > > > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a > > > > > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be > > > > > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to > see > > > > > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be > > > > > reduced.[1] > > > > > > > > > > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping > > > > > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make > mass > > > > > housekeeping very easy. > > > > > > > > > > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image > > > > > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons > > hat > > > > > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use > than > > > > > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to > suck > > > > > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available. > > > > > > > > > > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, > that > > > > > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were > > > > > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive > short > > > > > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful > > > > > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away. > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition > > > > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash > > > > > > > > > > Fae > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani <ladsgr...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores > > support > > > > for > > > > > > images that might be copyright violation, or both. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter < > ymb...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with > the > > > > > amount of > > > > > > > material it has to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta < > > > > > benjaminik...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or > > > > capable > > > > > to > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz < > > polime...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all > > undeleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing > several > > > > > > > GLAM-related > > > > > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page > > describing > > > > > what it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you > can > > > > > create a > > > > > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See: > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes > with > > > > > Common's > > > > > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to > promote > > > you > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do > > > > something > > > > > > > > similar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, > > but > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > hand it is constantly flooded by hundreds of copyright > > > violating > > > > > > > files a > > > > > > > > > day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See the list from just one day: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/2019/05/01 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so this hostility works both ways - Common's admins have to > > > cope > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > aggressive hostile copyright violators every day, and after > > > some > > > > > time - > > > > > > > > > decide to leave or became being hostile themselves... and > the > > > > other > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > is decreasing number of active admins and OTRS agents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think - sooner or later - all this system - uploads - > > > screening > > > > > > > uploads > > > > > > > > > by admins, and OTRS agreements - needs deep rethinking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 10:48 Mister Thrapostibongles < > > > > > > > > > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello all, > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the > > > Commons > > > > > > > > components > > > > > > > > >> of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia > > Commons: a > > > > > highly > > > > > > > > >> hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at > the > > > > > Education > > > > > > > > >> Newsletter > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> As far as I can understand it, some students on an > Outreach > > > > > project > > > > > > > > >> uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone > > on > > > > > Commons > > > > > > > > >> deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be > > student > > > > > projects > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > >> so concluded they were copyright violations. But some > > rather > > > > odd > > > > > > > > remarks > > > > > > > > >> were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of > > uploaded > > > > > > > > copyrighted > > > > > > > > >> content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > care." > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > >> "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud > > > > storage > > > > > for > > > > > > > > >> images you intend to use on Wikipedia ". > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute? > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Thrapostibongles > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > and > > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > 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<mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > > -Andrew Lih > > Author of The Wikipedia Revolution > > US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016) > > Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015) > > Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM > > Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American > > University, Columbia University, USC > > --- > > Email: and...@andrewlih.com > > WEB: https://muckrack.com/fuzheado > > PROJECT: Wikipedia Space: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > 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