Camelia, My comment was not about harassment, was about systemic and rampant lack of due process on the part of the WMF. And it's not drama, it's reality.
Paulo camelia boban <camelia.bo...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sexta, 21/06/2019 à(s) 15:24: > Oh my Gosh Paulo, can you stop this dramma about yourself and your problem > with everything is connected with WMF? > > To others, please have respect for the both parts engaged in this sad > story and do what Geert asked, stop discussing about this specific > conflict publicly. > If you want to talk more about harassment (in a generic way), then open > another thread. > > Thank you, > Camelia > > > > > > > > > > > Il giorno ven 21 giu 2019 alle ore 16:05 Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulospern...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a >> false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously >> dislike being falsely accused. >> >> Paulo >> >> A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta < >> paulospern...@gmail.com> escreveu: >> >> > Hi Robert, >> > >> > I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be >> > subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and >> > having no way to defend yourself appeal. >> > >> > Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only >> > happening to the others. Unfortunately it is not my case, and I know in >> > first person how flawed the system is. >> > >> > Apart from the details of the case described by the OP, the almost total >> > lack of due process is extremely worrying, especially to those who >> already >> > experimented it failing in first hand. >> > >> > Best, >> > Paulo >> > >> > >> > >> > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 14:43, Robert Fernandez < >> > wikigamal...@gmail.com> escreveu: >> > >> >> At some point we have to decide who this movement and community is >> >> for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please >> >> and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it >> >> so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who >> >> are not popular, who are not loud voices on community forums, who do >> >> not want to be harassed or leered at or made uncomfortable? >> >> >> >> Everything is a tradeoff, and based on what I've seen I'll take the >> >> lack of "due process" from trained and responsible professionals over >> >> the popularity contests of the mob any day. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta >> >> <paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process >> to >> >> > verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that, >> >> creates >> >> > a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool >> >> easy to >> >> > abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a >> >> vehicle >> >> > for severe harassment itself. >> >> > >> >> > This creates an unsafe and unfriendly space in the events,and should >> >> really >> >> > be looked at. >> >> > >> >> > Best, >> >> > Paulo >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 06:57, Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < >> >> > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> escreveu: >> >> > >> >> > > First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know >> >> that I >> >> > > personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable >> and >> >> > > wise. I totally support and trust their judgement. >> >> > > >> >> > > I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate >> >> official >> >> > > chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged >> >> offenders, >> >> > > showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for >> >> alleged >> >> > > victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of >> >> > > harrassment. >> >> > > >> >> > > How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are >> >> > > questionned by official members of our movement? >> >> > > >> >> > > Nattes à chat >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating <chriskeatingw...@gmail.com> >> a >> >> > > écrit : >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the >> >> Wikimedia >> >> > > >> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to >> supporting >> >> > > someone >> >> > > >> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that >> they >> >> had >> >> > > to >> >> > > >> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was >> >> > > affected >> >> > > >> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help >> you >> >> when >> >> > > you >> >> > > >> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the >> >> > > >> feelings of others." >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and >> why >> >> > > >> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just >> >> reflect on >> >> > > >> this thread. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon >> >> the >> >> > > > energy to write. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Chris >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > > > Unsubscribe: >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> >> , >> >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org >> ?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
