בתאריך יום ג׳, 25 ביוני 2019 ב-18:02 מאת Lucas Werkmeister < m...@lucaswerkmeister.de>:
> On 25.06.19 23:18, Yair Rand wrote: > > So far outside Wikimedia > > spaces that the only place it was even _announced_ was an off-wiki > mailing > > list? > > Where would you have announced it, then? I asked for a movement-wide > announcement place a while ago in a different context [1] and got no > satisfactory answer; the most popular one was wikimedia-l (this list), > and the only on-wiki answers were “the village pumps” (i. e. scattered) > – with the caveat that you should translate your message first, which > doesn’t scale well. I’m not saying the Space shouldn’t have been > announced anywhere else, but it certainly seems to me that there is a > need for a space like it, and in particular I don’t understand why you > criticize the choice of wikimedia-l for the initial announcement when > there seems to be good consensus for it being a central movement > announcement and discussion platform. > > [1]: https://twitter.com/LucasWerkmeistr/status/1107337860389265413 I would have publicly announced it at least on the place that it's trying to replace: Meta-wiki. > > Every single moderator is a WMF employee? > > There can hardly be many other moderators immediately after launch, but > if you check the “trust levels and user rights” post [2], you’ll see > that the software (Discourse) automatically promotes users based on > certain criteria (similar to autoconfirmed status on-wiki), and the > highest level seems in principle to be open to any user (though the > criteria still have to be fleshed out, which to me seems reasonable at > this stage.) > > The outline ELappen (WMF) put up says explicitly that Wikimedia Space is intended to be "A news and discussion space for the Wikimedia movement run by Community Relations." In the past, Wikimedia institutions have built things at the community's request, with an clear "We set up the technical work, everything in it is the community's responsibility now" message. This is pretty much the exact opposite of that, especially since there already was a space that was community-run with the same scope. Moderation of communications is something the WMF does not run, period. The perception that the WMF might think it can get involved in it is what led to the current chaos on enwiki. [2]: > > https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/trust-levels-and-user-rights-in-wikimedia-space/89 > > > Forum using closed groups, with non-transparent communication? > > This question is a bit too short for me to make sense of, sorry. Closed > groups are not the default, so are you criticizing their mere existence? > Do you want to claim that that closed groups are never, ever warranted? > Because in my experience the claim at [3] that “[b]ecause on-wiki spaces > don’t allow for [closed] collaboration, some volunteers have gravitated > toward … other … platforms” is completely true. > > [3]: https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/closed-groups/87 > > It is very deliberate that on-wiki spaces don't allow for closed collaboration. Non-transparent activities is generally not accepted without a very good reason. > (Closed-source software, unless I'm mistaken?) > > Both WordPress and Discourse are free and open source software. > > Last time the WMF set something up with WordPress, they did the whole thing in private, failed to publish the source code for the custom theme for months after launch, and also user violated privacy requirements by sharing data with third parties by loading data from external websites. I see a new website secretly set up with WordPress, a new tracker for the fact that it's violating the privacy of every user by loading third-party resources (T226559), and no mention anywhere of the publishing of the theme's source code. It is, of course, perfectly possible that I just missed it, or that there's no issue for some other reason. Also there's no content license information anywhere. Or pages about dumps, which would probably be necessary for allowing forking. I don't understand how we got to the point where something like this isn't even known about until after its launch. Or how it looks like everything about it was built by the WMF. I don't understand what's going on in there. It's quite concerning. -- Yair Rand > Cheers, > Lucas > > > > > Is there something the Wikimedia Foundation would like to tell us? > > > > -- Yair Rand > > > > בתאריך יום ג׳, 25 ביוני 2019 ב-14:56 מאת Pine W < > wiki.p...@gmail.com > > >: > > > >> Hi Maria, > >> > >> Thanks for this update. > >> > >> I hope that you can answer a question. I may be mistaken, but my > impression > >> is that the purposes that are outlined for Wikimedia Space are within > the > >> intended scopes of the Meta and Outreach wikis, as well as Wikimedia-l. > I > >> think that the community would be willing to consider design > improvements > >> and additional features for Meta and Outreach, such as calendar and map > >> tools that are easy to use. Design improvements and additional features > >> might also be welcome by third parties who use MediaWiki software and > could > >> eventually have the option to implement the changes on their own sites. > Can > >> you explain the decision to launch a new site instead of proposing > design > >> improvements and additional features for Meta and Outreach? > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Pine > >> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
