Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest in the project is even wanted.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad <jeb...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia > Foundation. > > Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused > on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction > to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name > would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says > “no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a > change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an > earthquake. > > I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but > what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack > of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to > this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen. > Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because > as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero. > > As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt. > > [1] > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia > > John Erling Blad > /jeblad > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty < > selsharb...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary > > about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3] > > in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the > development > > process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project > > itself. > > > > The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. > The > > RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk > page > > [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they > > are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before > making > > further conclusions here. > > > > The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the > > Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as > > well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming > > convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central > concept > > is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention > > proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" > > with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities. > > > > Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming > > conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline > > [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the > > communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this > > review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the > > timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the > full > > proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation > > leadership and the Board. > > > > [1] > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia > > > > [2] > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team > > > > [3] > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project > > > > [4] > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ > > > > [5] > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes > > > across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a > > > word with them here? > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood > > > <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an > > > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those > > whose > > > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just > > > part of the heat in the kitchen. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] > On > > > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > > > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > > > > > > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not > > > think > > > > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably > > spends > > > > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulyt...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > > > > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I > > > just > > > > > didn't hear that. > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > (Comment in personal capacity) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty < > > > selsharb...@wikimedia.org> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project > timeline > > > and > > > > > > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > > > > > > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, > so > > > we are > > > > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are > happening > > > to all > > > > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time > and > > > > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the > > > project > > > > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and > > > smaller > > > > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by > month > > > and > > > > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on > a > > > more > > > > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming > discussions > > > > > planned > > > > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design > proposals > > > are > > > > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > > > > > > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > > > > > > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > > > > > > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts > > > referred > > > > > to > > > > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team > > will > > > > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. > > > Snøhetta > > > > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual > > models > > > from > > > > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified > > > concept. > > > > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming > work > > > around > > > > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design > > > system. > > > > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing > > > after. > > > > > You > > > > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a > presentation > > > of a > > > > > > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > > > > > > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > > > > > > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > > > > > > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this > is > > > even > > > > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > > > > > <selsharb...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the > > > concerns > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have > > now > > > > > added > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details > about > > > the > > > > > > block > > > > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of > > > > > updating > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add > those > > > pages > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra < > gnanga...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial > > > > > relationship > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban > > > thats > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many > > users > > > who > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but > > before > > > > > they > > > > > > > start > > > > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there > > > needs to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the > > > community > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to > > > rebuild > > > > > the > > > > > > > hen > > > > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they > > > > > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been > pumped > > > into > > > > > the > > > > > > > 2030 > > > > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that > > > should > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > > > > > comprehensible > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, > > why > > > we > > > > > > will > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard < > > dger...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an > > > > > > > unwillingness > > > > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > > > > > <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have > > > seen so > > > > > > > far, it > > > > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework > on > > > how we > > > > > > > > > operate, > > > > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, > and > > > plan > > > > > to > > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages > with > > > lots > > > > > of > > > > > > > buzz, > > > > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. > Maybe > > > I am > > > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the > > > outside? > > > > > > > Block > > > > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the > > > > > > community. > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > > > > > wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we > as a > > > > > > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed > > > > > > personally > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta > > > deserved > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good > steward > > > of > > > > > > > resources > > > > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that > this > > > > > project > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important > > component > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF > > > rebranding > > > > > > > itself as > > > > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the > > > communities > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance > > > > > problems, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I > > don't > > > > > think > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't > > involve > > > > > > Snøhetta > > > > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, > > and > > > I've > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during > > the > > > past > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with > > > this > > > > > > > program > > > > > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and > > spending > > > > > > > associated > > > > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's > view > > > on > > > > > > > whether > > > > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a > > > branding > > > > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide > on > > > the > > > > > > > project's > > > > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant > should > > be > > > > > > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > and > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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