Unfortunately I think all these points are valid. These behavious do not improve communication for many of us. There seems to be a choice between freedom of expression and effective communication in a multicultural group. There is theoretically the option of asking for clarification, but it is often ignored. Sometimes bluntly refused, and sometimes claimed not to be necessary. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo Testart Sent: 12 September 2020 22:45 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hi All, I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in written discussions in general in any given list, most of the time when these things are done, then everything turns challenging, complicated, or sadly blatantly uncivil: 1) Irony 2) Jokes 3) Long and numerous paragraphs (extensive writing) 4) Acronyms I believe these things are very important to pay attention too and should be avoided, no matter what we are feeling or thinking about any specific subject. Not doing so regularly leads to conflictive states, and paying attention to the latter and restraining from doing so normally contributes to open discussions. I believe also that helps a lot to reduce: 5) Sayings and expressions Maybe all this resonates with someone, and if not, it's also ok :] Cheers! On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:00 PM Asaf Bartov <asaf.bar...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:50 PM Dan Szymborski <dszymbor...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > As long as people are going to continue to talk about me and imply that > I'm > > actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a right to defend myself. > > > > Nobody ever denied you that right. > > I brought up that the UCoC standard is a reasonable person standard, not a > > "most offended person" standard and this was never addressed. Instead, I > > was demeaned by being placed on a special moderation protocol. Asaf > Bartov > > threatened me that if I continued to defend myself -- even as people > > continued to discuss me -- that *I'm* hijacking the thread. > > > What I actually wrote to you, and I quote, was: > > "I also must insist that you not hijack this thread, which is for > discussing the draft UCoC. If you see value in bringing up your concerns > on those other matters on this list, please do so on separate threads. > Since you have expressed the opinion that this UCoC draft is illegitimate, > I suggest there is really no reason for you to post further on this thread, > leaving it for those who *would* like to discuss it." > > I then did indeed threaten that *if you continue to disrupt the UCoC > thread*, your messages won't be let through. As you can see, your latest > letter, since it was no longer disrupting the UCoC thread, *was* let > through. > > I asked Asaf if Koerner was given a similar warning for a very long, smug, > > patronizing screed about me as on-topic. Bartov reiterated that nobody > else > > was given any warning about off-topic communication. Only *I* am not > > allowed to talk about *my* apparent offense. > > > > Since now you quote a question you asked privately, I will quote the answer > I gave you: > > ==================== > "No, I did not warn Ms. Koerner about thread hijacking, because the very > problem with thread hijacking is that once the change of topic is made, > people legitimately want to respond. I have not observed Ms. Koerner > *initiating* a thread hijack. > > I do encourage you to continue contributing on the list, including in > criticizing whatever flaws you find in the Foundation's actions. I > certainly find such flaws myself. > > But again, as a professional, perhaps you can be less ornery and more > measured in expressing the *substance* of your concerns. It would at the > very least be no less effective, and perhaps more so." > ==================== > > A. > -- > Asaf Bartov <asaf.bar...@gmail.com> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > -- Eduardo Testart (56)(98) 293 5278 Móvil _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
