On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:22 PM Nathan <nawr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, to Steven's point that you might need a jurisdiction where corporate > officers and employees aren't subject to extradition... I believe Germany > does in fact have an extradition treaty with the United States. >
The chapters do seem like the obvious potentially viable easy solution here, if WMF set up that contingency plan. For instance, if WMDE did take over in an emergency, then the critical difference is that Germany doesn't extradite its own citizens to the US. So there'd just have to be a complete handoff of primary hosting to outside the US and some kind of agreement for WMDE (or pick your chapter) to take over operational control. There's probably a lot that real lawyers, of which I am not one, would know better here. > So far the criteria I'm hearing from the comments here: > > 1) Politically stable > 2) Liberal political environment > 3) Strong protections against government interference in relevant > operations > 4) Section 230-like protection against liability for user content > 5) No natural disasters like fires, floods, hurricanes, volcanoes, etc. > 6) Strong technological sophistication - preferably a robust technology > industry that can supply local talent for WMF needs > 7) Protections in the law for data privacy > 8) Availability of renewable energy sources and other resources that allow > for operation of the WMF with a low climate impact > 9) Tax exemption or beneficial tax structure for receiving international > fundings by donation > 10) Clear and reliable regulatory framework for a charitable organization > 11) Safe - low crime, low-risk of violence for WMF stakeholders and > community > 12) Free from risk of extradition to the U.S. or other jurisdictions where > criminal or civil law might be used against WMF officers or employees > > I would guess the list of countries that meet all of these criteria might > be short. Norway might hit most of these except the last. > The only item that seems more or less impossible is preventing 5 in light of the impacts of climate change. There is no locale on the planet that won't suffer from severe weather and natural disasters, just some (like the poorer countries and anywhere in the tropics) that will see worse impacts. So the only nuance is aiming for more like "Prepared for the event of severe weather and natural disasters" not "none". On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 2:44 PM Michael Peel <em...@mikepeel.net> wrote: > > > β¦ hence the existence of Wikimedia chapters? I suspect at least WMDE > could > > take this on if it becomes necessary, although other chapters arenβt as > > technologically developed as Iβd have liked to have seen. > > > > Thanks, > > Mike > > > > > On 30 Sep 2020, at 19:35, Steven Walling <steven.wall...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > SJ hinted at a related problem which is that we'd also need a backup > > > organizational structure to run things operationally and legally. If > the > > US > > > becomes so politically unstable that hosting Wikimedia data is under > > threat > > > there, just moving the data would not be enough. You'd also have to > > include > > > a contingency plan that foresaw the need to legally operate the > > Foundation > > > (or an equivalent organization anyway) under a different jurisdiction > > > with corporate officers not subject to US law or extradition. If the > > > servers are hosted in the EU but the legally controlling body and its > > > employees are within the US, you could still see them legally forced to > > > comply with an order, just like companies are forced to do so in > > > other countries with censorious regimes today. > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 8:59 AM Samuel Klein <meta...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> We should have technical partners in multiple other jurisdictions that > > >> could help in a crisis, and load bearing infrastructure in at least > one > > of > > >> them, and a plan for how and when to switch. (The walkthrough of what > > would > > >> be needed for a smooth transfer send most important, and useful for > > general > > >> reliability planning) > > >> > > >> We should also fully support and realize Wikimedia-on-ipfs, similar to > > what > > >> the internet archive had been doing. (Santhosh has some excellent > ideas > > >> there) > > >> > > >> ππππ > > >> > > >> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 5:35 a.m. Dan Garry (Deskana), < > > djgw...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 09:49, Erik Moeller <eloque...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I hope that some preliminary contingency plans exist or are being > > >>>> developed, and I'm sure that the movement-wide debate will widen if > > >>>> the US continues its downward slide into authoritarianism. > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> I agree with Erik. Even under the Obama administration, there were > > >> threats > > >>> to the existence of the movement, such as SOPA [1] which lead to a > > >> blackout > > >>> [2]. One can extrapolate from current events that these threats could > > >> well > > >>> get larger and more frequent, rather than smaller and less frequent, > > >> should > > >>> someone in the US Government decide to focus their attention on > > attacking > > >>> Wikipedia and free knowledge. It would be prudent to create a > > contingency > > >>> plan which includes an exploration of other options for a location of > > >>> operation for the Wikimedia Foundation and/or its servers, with their > > >>> advantages and disadvantages. I personally wouldn't necessarily > > advocate > > >>> for making the plan public; that would be ideal, but I'd be comforted > > >>> merely to know it exists. > > >>> > > >>> On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 23:36, Joseph Seddon <josephsed...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> I believe options are going to be explored for sustainability but > > right > > >>> now > > >>>> legally speaking the US is the best jurisdiction for hosting us now > > and > > >>> the > > >>>> foreseeable future. > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> I agree with this too. For now, the United States remains the best > > place > > >>> for the organisation to operate out of, and a move should not be > > actively > > >>> considered. > > >>> > > >>> Dan > > >>> > > >>> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act > > >>> [2]: > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA#Wikimedia_community > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
