Hi, This podcast might be interesting for some on this thread: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/15/podcasts/the-daily/chat-gpt-microsoft-bing-artificial-intelligence.html
There might be chance that something different or new is happening. Who knows... Best, On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 07:26 Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > It would depend on whether it uses the text or the information/data. My > guess is that the more it uses its own words, the more drift in meaning > there will be, and the less reliable the result, but I have no way to test > this hypothesis. > > Cheers, Peter > > > > *From:* Ilario Valdelli [mailto:valde...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 06 February 2023 09:38 > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT > > > > And this is a problem. > > > > If ChatGPT uses open content, there is an infringement of license. > > > > Specifically the CC-by-sa if it uses Wikipedia. In this case the > attribution must be present. > > > > Kind regards > > > > On Sun, 5 Feb 2023, 08:12 Peter Southwood, <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> > wrote: > > “Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing > sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models” > This may be a choice that comes back to bite them. Without citing their > sources, they are unreliable as a source for anything one does not know > already. Someone will have a bad consequence from relying on the > information and will sue the publisher. It will be interesting to see how > they plan to weasel their way out of legal responsibility while retaining > any credibility. My guess is there will be a requirement to state that the > information is AI generated and of entirely unknown and untested > reliability. How soon to the first class action, I wonder. Lots of money > for the lawyers. Cheers, Peter. > > > > *From:* Subhashish [mailto:psubhash...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 05 February 2023 06:37 > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT > > > > Just to clarify, my point was not about Getty to begin with. Whether Getty > would win and whether a big corporation should own such a large amount of > visual content are questions outside this particular thread. It would > certainly be interesting to see how things roll. > > > > But AI/ML is way more than just looking. Training with large models is a > very sophisticated and technical process. Data annotation among many other > forms of labour are done by real people. the article I had linked earlier > tells a lot about the real world consequences of AI. I'm certain AI/ML, > especially when we're talking about language models like ChatGPT, are far > from innocent looking/reading. For starters, derivative of works, except > Public Domain ones, must attribute the authors. Any provision for > attribution is deliberately removed from systems like ChatGPT and that only > gives corporations like OpenAI a free ride sans accountability. > > > > Subhashish > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2023, 4:41 PM Todd Allen <toddmal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm not so sure Getty's got a case, though. If the images are on the Web, > is using them to train an AI something copyright would cover? That to me > seems more equivalent to just looking at the images, and there's no > copyright problem in going to Getty's site and just looking at a bunch of > their pictures. > > > > But it will be interesting to see how that one shakes out. > > > > Todd > > > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 11:47 AM Subhashish <psubhash...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Not citing sources is probably a conscious design choice, as citing > sources would mean sharing the sources used to train the language models. > Getty has just sued Stability AI, alleging the use of 12 million > photographs without permission or compensation. Imagine if Stability had to > purchase from Getty through a legal process. For starters, Getty might not > have agreed in the first place. Bulk-scaping publicly visible text in > text-based AIs like ChatGPT would mean scraping text with copyright. But > even reusing CC BY-SA content would require attribution. None of the AI > platforms attributes their sources because they did not acquire content in > legal and ethical ways [1]. Large language models won't be large and > releases won't happen fast if they actually start acquiring content > gradually from trustworthy sources. It took so many years for hundreds and > thousands of Wikimedians to take Wikipedias in different languages to where > they are for a reason. > > > > 1. https://time.com/6247678/openai-chatgpt-kenya-workers/ > > > Subhashish > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 1:06 PM Peter Southwood < > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > From what I have seen the AIs are not great on citing sources. If they > start citing reliable sources, their contributions can be verified, or not. > If they produce verifiable, adequately sourced, well written information, > are they a problem or a solution? > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > *From:* Gnangarra [mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 04 February 2023 17:04 > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT > > > > I see our biggest challenge is going to be detecting these AI tools adding > content whether it's media or articles, along with identifying when they > are in use by sources. The failing of all new AI is not in its ability but > in the lack of transparency with that being able to be identified by the > readers. We have seen people impersonating musicians and writing songs in > their style. We have also seen pictures that have been created by copying > someone else's work yet not acknowledging it as being derivative of any > kind. > > > > Our big problems will be in ensuring that copyright is respected in > legally, and not hosting anything that is even remotely dubious > > > > On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 22:24, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > Brainstorming on how to drive traffic to Wikimedia content from > conversational media, UI/UX designers could provide menu items or buttons > on chatbots' applications or webpage components (e.g., to read more about > the content, to navigate to cited resources, to edit the content, to > discuss the content, to upvote/downvote the content, to share the content > or the recent dialogue history on social media, to request > review/moderation/curation for the content, etc.). Many of these envisioned > menu items or buttons would operate contextually during dialogues, upon the > most recent (or otherwise selected) responses provided by the chatbot or > upon the recent transcripts. Some of these features could also be made > available to end-users via spoken-language commands. > > At any point during hypertext-based dialogues, end-users would be able to > navigate to Wikimedia content. These navigations could utilize either URL > query string arguments or HTTP POST. In either case, bulk usage data, e.g., > those dialogue contexts navigated from, could be useful. > > The capability to perform A/B testing across chatbots’ dialogues, over > large populations of end-users, could also be useful. In this way, > Wikimedia would be better able to: (1) measure end-user engagement and > satisfaction, (2) measure the quality of provided content, (3) perform > personalization, (4) retain readers and editors. A/B testing could be > performed by providing end-users with various feedback buttons (as > described above). A/B testing data could also be obtained through data > mining, analyzing end-users’ behaviors, response times, responses, and > dialogue moves. These data could be provided for the community at special > pages and could be made available per article, possibly by enhancing the > “Page information” system. One can also envision these kinds of analytics > data existing at the granularity of portions of, or selections of, > articles. > > > > > > Best regards, > > Adam > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Victoria Coleman <vstavridoucole...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:10 AM > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT > > > > Hi Christophe, > > > > I had not thought about the threat to Wikipedia traffic from Chat GPT but > you have a good point. The success of the projects is always one step away > from the next big disruption. So the WMF as the tech provider for the > mission (because first and foremost in my view that?s what the WMF is - as > well as the financial engine of the movement of course) needs to pay > attention and experiment to maintain the long term viability of the > mission. In fact I think the cluster of our projects offers compelling > options. For example to your point below on data sets, we have the amazing > Wikidata as well the excellent work on abstract Wikipedia. We have > Wikipedia Enterprise which has built some avenues of collaboration with big > tech. A bold vision is needed to bring all of it together and build an MVP > for the community to experiment with. > > Best regards, > > > > Victoria Coleman > > > > On Feb 4, 2023, at 4:14 AM, Christophe Henner <christophe.hen...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > ?Hi, > > > > On the product side, NLP based AI biggest concern to me is that it would > drastically decrease traffic to our websites/apps. Which means less new > editors ans less donations. > > > > So first from a strictly positioning perspective, we have here a major > change that needs to be managed. > > > > And to be honest, it will come faster than we think. We are > perfectionists, I can assure you, most companies would be happy to launch a > search product with a 80% confidence in answers quality. > > > > From a financial perspective, large industrial investment like this are > usually a pool of money you can draw from in x years. You can expect they > did not draw all of it yet. > > > > Second, GPT 3 and ChatGPT are far from being the most expensive products > they have. On top of people you need: > > * datasets > > * people to tag the dataset > > * people to correct the algo > > * computing power > > > > I simplify here, but we already have the capacity to muster some of that, > which drastically lowers our costs :) > > > > I would not discard the option of the movement doing it so easily. That > being said, it would mean a new project with the need of substantial > ressources. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 4, 2023, at 9:30 AM, Adam Sobieski <adamsobie...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > ? > > With respect to cloud computing costs, these being a significant component > of the costs to train and operate modern AI systems, as a non-profit > organization, the Wikimedia Foundation might be interested in the National > Research Cloud (NRC) policy proposal: > https://hai.stanford.edu/policy/national-research-cloud . > > > > "Artificial intelligence requires vast amounts of computing power, data, > and expertise to train and deploy the massive machine learning models > behind the most advanced research. But access is increasingly out of reach > for most colleges and universities. A National Research Cloud (NRC) would > provide academic and *non-profit researchers* with the compute power and > government datasets needed for education and research. By democratizing > access and equity for all colleges and universities, an NRC has the > potential not only to unleash a string of advancements in AI, but to help > ensure the U.S. maintains its leadership and competitiveness on the global > stage. > > > > "Throughout 2020, Stanford HAI led efforts with 22 top computer science > universities along with a bipartisan, bicameral group of lawmakers > proposing legislation to bring the NRC to fruition. On January 1, 2021, the > U.S. Congress authorized the National AI Research Resource Task Force Act > as part of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021. > This law requires that a federal task force be established to study and > provide an implementation pathway to create world-class computational > resources and robust government datasets for researchers across the country > in the form of a National Research Cloud. The task force will issue a final > report to the President and Congress next year. > > > > "The promise of an NRC is to democratize AI research, education, and > innovation, making it accessible to all colleges and universities across > the country. Without a National Research Cloud, all but the most elite > universities risk losing the ability to conduct meaningful AI research and > to adequately educate the next generation of AI researchers." > > > > See also: [1][2] > > > > [1] > https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2023/01/24/national-artificial-intelligence-research-resource-task-force-releases-final-report/ > > [2] > https://www.ai.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/NAIRR-TF-Final-Report-2023.pdf > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Steven Walling <steven.wall...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 1:59 AM > *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:47 PM Gerg? Tisza <gti...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Just to give a sense of scale: OpenAI started with a $1 billion donation, > got another $1B as investment, and is now getting a larger investment from > Microsoft (undisclosed but rumored to be $10B). Assuming they spent most of > their previous funding, which seems likely, their operational costs are in > the ballpark of $300 million per year. The idea that the WMF could just > choose to create conversational software of a similar quality if it wanted > seems detached from reality to me. > > > > Without spending billions on LLM development to aim for a > conversational chatbot trying to pass a Turing test, we could definitely > try to catch up to the state of the art in search results. Our search > currently does a pretty bad job (in terms of recall especially). Today's > featured article in English is the Hot Chip album "Made in the Dark", and > if I enter anything but the exact article title the typeahead results are > woefully incomplete or wrong. If I ask an actual question, good luck. > > > > Google is feeling vulnerable to OpenAI here in part because everyone can > see that their results are often full of low quality junk created for SEO, > while ChatGPT just gives a concise answer right there. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menu_(2022_film) is one of the top > viewed English articles. If I search "The Menu reviews" the Google results > are noisy and not so great. ChatGPT actually gives you nothing relevant > because it doesn't know anything from 2022. If we could just manage to > display the three sentence snippet of our article about the critical > response section of the article, it would be awesome. It's too bad that the > whole "knowledge engine" debacle poisoned the well when it comes to a > Wikipedia search engine, because we could definitely do a lot to learn from > what people like about ChatGPT and apply to Wikipedia search. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/6OBPB7WNHKJQXXIBCK73SDXLE3DMGNMY/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > 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