I couldn't have said it better Bala. Swaroop Rao (MikeLynch <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MikeLynch>)
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 16:39, Bala Jeyaraman <sodabot...@gmail.com> wrote: > *>>That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be that an editor > (in this case who happened to be a student) contributed content to an > article. It would (almost routinely) reviewed by other editors who > coudl/would improve it or point out issues. One of the aspects that the > better students have fed back to us is the value of the collaboration with > the global editing community.* > > Hisham, i was an online mentor for seven students in the PPP in the > previous sem. I have done this before. I am normally a patient newbie > helper. I help tens of newbies every day in Ta and en wiki. But if you make > it an obligation for me to check through the edits of forty odd guys, who > turn in assignments and are only angling for marks in their courses, you > are turning me off. You heard what another OA surya had to say about this . > > You are looking at OAs as full time employees - "they have a job to do, > why not do it". Remember this is a volunteer project and we volunteers have > only X amount of time to donate to wikipedia, OAs have other interests in > Wikipedia - being a OA isnt supposed to take up all my wikitime. I > certainly did not sign up for following every edit of a COEP student who > shows no sign of actually wanting to voluntarily contribute to Wikipedia or > any sign of learning. My onwiki time is better spent elsewhere. > > This is the biggest difference between my PPP experience and IEP > experience. In the former i had 7 mentees, who asked me for help, when they > ran into trouble, listened to what i had to say, were basically competent, > produced workable quality content. I was happy to improve their content as > the workload was manageable. In the IEP, i had 40, who never asked me > anything (instead i am expected to go through their edits). But could be > seen arguing with people who tag their content for copyright violation, > adding the same copyvio content after being reverted multiple times. > Getting their CAs to plead with admins if they get blocked. > > So for the next phase do not design a OA as someone who will track every > edit of a student and correct all his mistakes - Such a thing might be > possible with one on one mentoring, but even then it routinely fails in the > regular "adopt a editor" arrangements that happen in en wiki. But with five > or seven students (forget about forty) it is impossible for me to log in > daily, check if they have edited, check out the diffs, cross check for > copyvio and then give him/her a feedback. > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Hisham <hmun...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > >> >> On Nov 12, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Bala Jeyaraman wrote: >> >> >>Many of us went through college recently know its not *Some*, its >> *Most*. Anything called assignment and graded will be copy-pasted even by >> the brightest 5% of students in class who would have potential to do on >> their own. >> >> +1. with Srikanth This is the SINGLE MOST important thing to remember >> for the future. Lets cut the political correctness and putting the blame >> everywhere else than where it belongs - the students and faculty involved >> >> >> My view is not driven by political correctness but I do want to avoid >> generalising all students and all faculty. Just take a look a the user >> talk and article discussion pages and it's immediately apparent that quite >> a few students and teachers wouldn't deserve blame. Many students did make >> mistakes - but they made the same mistakes that many newbies. >> >> >> So here is what is to be done: >> >> 1) *Keep the number low* - >> >> >> Agree and we need to work on how we select the colleges and faculty and >> classes and students. >> >> 2) *Penalise those who copy paste* >> >> >> This is something that can (and should) be led by the faculty. Some >> teachers have shown the way on how this can be done. >> >> >> 3) *The CA to student ratio has to be 5 to 1. * >> >> >> Clearly the student:CA ratio needs to be reduced significantly. ...but >> did you mean students:CA 5:1 or 1:5? >> >> Anything more seems to non-workable. Online Ambassadors/mentors are not >> handholders and error correctors. I signed up to be an online ambassador. >> But stopped reading the IEP mails that were sent to me after i realised, >> that the IEP program essentially wanted to me to do the students' work. >> >> >> That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be that an editor (in >> this case who happened to be a student) contributed content to an article. >> It would (almost routinely) reviewed by other editors who coudl/would >> improve it or point out issues. One of the aspects that the better >> students have fed back to us is the value of the collaboration with the >> global editing community. >> >> >> >> hisham >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > >
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