Yes, the bots are useful for devs, that's the reason why we made them and there is a little point to argue about that. But they aren't useful for other users of #mediawiki especially users who seek help. IMHO #mediawiki should be used for development (bots are probably ok), #wikimedia-dev for wikimedia related developement (some bots are ok) and there should be another channel for mediawiki support, which would be user friendly.
If we keep the bots as they are we won't fix anything (if you think that there is no issue, read the first mail). If we move the bots to #wikimedia-dev we likely kill the #wikimedia-dev channel, and all #mediawiki devs will loose the track of what's going on (defacto we rename #mediawiki to #wikimedia-dev and most of people who were in #mediawiki will just move to -dev). If we move the bots to separate channel which would be +m, we will make all channels more usable for regular talk. But some people will find it difficult because they would have to switch channels more often. If we create new channel for mediawiki help and keep the rest as it is, we solve this problem as well. If we get all bots to -feed channel, and reconfigure them to send only topic related feed to current channels, (mediawiki related stuff to #mediawiki, wikimedia related stuff to #wikimedia-dev) then we could either make the channels friendlier and we could have a relevant stuff in there (I don't understand why #mediawiki devs need to see bugs related to wikimedia platform issues, these should go to -dev). That would mean more spam in -dev and less spam in #mediawiki and more relevant feeds, people who just like to watch spam and flood could stay in #mediawiki-feed. It would involve some people to work on that and change the code of bots, devs are lazy (like me) so this is likely a bad option :) Don't say things are OK right now, they clearly aren't. If they are fine for you, that doesn't mean they are fine for others. Bots are good for devs, no wonder, we made them. But there are other users too. On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Krinkle <krinklem...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Chad <innocentkil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Brion Vibber <br...@pobox.com> wrote: >> > In my experience, the bots in the channel are an important part of our >> > workflow -- new bug reports, bug updates, and patches in gerrit. When I'm >> > discussing things in #wikimedia-dev I usually end up having to manually >> add >> > references to something that a bot already sent to #mediawiki, which is >> one >> > of the reasons I've always preferred using #mediawiki. >> > >> > Please don't make yet another split-off channel; that'll be annoying and >> > make things more complicated for little if any benefit. >> > >> >> I think I agree with Brion more than anyone else. I find the bots to >> be incredibly useful, and jumping back and forth between channels >> is a pain. Also like I've said multiple times in multiple places over >> the past couple of days--when you move channels you fracture >> discussion. It happened with #wikimedia-dev, and it'll happen again >> here if we don't do this right. >> >> However, I see the argument to be made that if you're not a regular >> then the bots can be rather annoying to filter out. And honestly, >> someone who drops in for a few minutes to ask a question shouldn't >> be asked to /ignore every random bot they see. >> >> Is there some middle ground here? >> >> -Chad >> >> > I agree with all the above (hm.. I see a pattern emerging :D ). > > I think the middle ground is to keep the bots in a regular discussion > channel, but not the channel where most support and new-user development > takes place, but a channel where most core developers hang out. I'm talking > about #wikimedia-dev. > > I'll cite myself from CR: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/12388 : > > We should make the bots smarter, and spread out to relevant channels >> (rather than everything in one channeL). But I don't think one (or more) >> "bot channels" is going to work. The main concern raised (iirc) is that new >> users don't like them. And I agree the 'user' level doesn't have much use >> for them. A few ideas: > > > > * #mediawiki: wikibugs for Product=MediaWiki (maybe + MediaWiki extensions). >> * #wikimedia-dev: wikibugs for Product=Wikimedia. > > * Other bugs are not sent to IRC (unless additional rules are inserted. >> e.g. mobile could have their component output in their channel) > > * #wikimedia-dev: gerrit-wm messages currently assigned for #mediawiki >> could be moved to #wikimedia-dev. That will reduce the flood for support, >> while keeping them in the relevant context of developers and conversations. > > > -- Krinkle > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
