Only supporting 5GHz channels did eliminate the overlapping issue for 802.11ac clients. (s) Now if we can just fix this backwards compatibility issue they keep forcing on us with each standards refresh. (/s)
Though in all seriousness, making 5GHz non-optional will be one of the improvements that benefits large Wi-Fi networks the devices adopt it and as users go through their normal tech refresh cycle. It is much easier to recommend someone makes sure that their device supports 802.11ac, than it has been to try to explain to them the difference between an 802.11n device and a 5GHz capable 5GHz device. As Cliff Skolnick said in 2011: "2.4GHz is dead to me." I just hope we get a few more years out of 5GHz before it gets as bad. -Luke On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Frank Sweetser <f...@wpi.edu> wrote: > Personally I think an opportunity was missed to drop support for > overlapping channels in 11ac, at least on the AP side. It would be a nice > motivator to deny them the biggest wifi certification sticker yet if they > keep doing braindead things like default to channel 2. > > Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu | For every problem, there is a solution > that > Manager of Network Operations | is simple, elegant, and wrong. > Worcester Polytechnic Institute | - HL Mencken > > > On 01/10/2014 08:27 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: > >> I agree with Tim- FCC won’t give a rip. Peppering the landscape with WLAN >> channel 2 isn’t illegal, just idiotic. >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Tim Cappalli >> *Sent:* Friday, January 10, 2014 8:13 AM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> It’s worth a shot, but they’re not “technically” doing anything wrong. >> >> ** >> >> *Tim Cappalli* | ACCP / ACMP / CCNA >> Network Engineer | Brandeis University >> cappa...@brandeis.edu <mailto:cappa...@brandeis.edu> | (617) 701-7149 >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *John Kaftan >> *Sent:* Friday, January 10, 2014 12:00 AM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> Could a complaint to the FCC help? Has anyone tried that? Remember how >> we >> signed a petition for Apple to get their act together about a year ago? >> Maybe >> if we all bombarded the FCC about this issue they would find the teeth to >> go >> after Verizon and ATT et al. >> >> I know. I am a dreamer...but I'm not the only one.... >> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Lee H Badman <lhbad...@syr.edu >> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> wrote: >> >> Fix the Mi-Fi situation and all will be forgiven. How one wireless >> technology sector can be so clueless about the issues they cause for >> another is confounding. >> >> See if you can get a sticker put on the devices that say "These aren't >> exactly welcome everywhere" for bonus points. >> >> :) >> >> Lee Badman >> Network Architect/Wireless TME >> ITS, Syracuse University >> 315.443.3003 <tel:315.443.3003> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* Manish Rai [m...@merunetworks.com <mailto: >> m...@merunetworks.com>] >> *Received:* Thursday, 09 Jan 2014, 17:07 >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> Sorry for blasting the group. This email was meant for internal >> consumption. My apologies. >> >> Best, >> >> Manish >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Manish >> Rai >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 09, 2014 2:03 PM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> Ajay, >> >> There is a lot of discussion on Educause list about interference from >> Myfi >> devices from AT&T and Verizon. Can we check to see of we can >> somehouse >> cause the MyWi devices to switch to another channel than the one we >> are >> using? We can make a huge marketing windfall from this. Others use >> all >> the channels and cannot do this. >> >> Best, >> >> Manish >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jim >> Florwick >> (jiflorwi) >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 09, 2014 7:09 AM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> Today the only solution that we have had any luck with is wireless >> policy >> and spreading the word. It is an education problem – and the Carriers >> will likely start caring more as they themselves deploy more wi-fi and >> bear the burden of their creations. If you publish a policy – it's a >> lot >> like posting a speed limit – no one cares until someone gets a ticket. >> Policing the policy is an important part of the education process. >> In >> annual events we sponsor and support we police this using system >> location >> and then Fluke AirChecks to triangulate and identify an individual in >> a >> crowd (that's actually fun for me – but not as productive as running >> the >> network). Year on year since we started implementing policies, we >> have >> seen an improvement. It's often not worth trying to track the Mi–Fi's >> down now as they will be gone before you can get to them – and in >> reality >> the short time they are active doesn't really interfere all that >> much. It >> is my hope that one day this is like recycling – and neighbors will >> council neighbors on social responsibility. >> >> As far as blocking the MAC address – this is not possible as the >> Mi-Fi is >> not on your control plane – it is it's own Wlan and is not using your >> wired resources – just your spectrum. You can try rogue containment >> – and >> we have – eventually users get frustrated and quit – however this is >> only >> practical at normal user volumes – large events you can't afford to >> waste >> spectrum by attacking rogues over the air. >> >> Standards committees are well aware of the issue – but the hangup is >> that >> an IBSS or Mi-Fi is perfectly legal by the specification. Some hope >> can >> be seen in the WFA's adoption of an Enterprise Voice Certification. >> Perhaps one day we will have a consumer cert vs Enterprise >> Engineered >> cert – and hopefully a way to mandate what features are acceptable on >> a >> privately engineered enterprise network. >> >> Jim Florwick >> >> Cisco >> >> TME WNG >> >> *From: *Scott Allen <sc...@georgetown.edu <mailto: >> sc...@georgetown.edu>> >> *Reply-To: *The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> >> *Date: *Thursday, January 9, 2014 9:23 AM >> *To: *"WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>" >> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> >> *Subject: *Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> Has anyone constructed a wired/wireless set of tools that will allow >> us to >> manually detect WiFi rogues and then disable their MAC addresses on >> the >> wired network? I have Prime 1.3 running for APs so I can see the >> rogues >> but I don't know which wired port they are connected to. >> >> -Scott (we are the morlocks) Allen >> >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Lee H Badman <lhbad...@syr.edu >> <mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu>> wrote: >> >> Is a frustrating topic for sure. Even if you have a good wireless >> guest >> network, many vendors/visitors and even some faculty/staff/students >> just >> prefer to pull their own devices out and use “their own WLAN” >> anywhere and >> everywhere- it’s just part of their lifestyle. And yes, frustratingly >> our >> friends at Verizon and AT&T who make these units increasingly cheaper >> could give a rip about interference or policy of the places the >> gadgets >> get used. My own rant: >> http://wirednot.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/mi-fi-not-kind-to-wi-fi/ >> >> Prevention is great if you can effectively spread the word, but the >> need >> to have a mitigation strategy is inevitable- as is the occasional >> scenario >> where a class or meeting (or stadium event) has its campus wireless >> crippled by people “bringin’ their own Wi-Fi”. Sadly. Our lot in life >> is >> to bear the criticism that the WLAN sucks when we’re simply a victim >> of >> physics, until we can deal with getting the devices eliminated. >> >> The move to 5 GHz by more devices helps, but doesn’t eliminate the >> problem >> as some Mi-Fis are showing up in 5 GHz as well. To me, this is just >> one of >> the negative (to us in the Enterprise WLAN business) effects of the >> general consumerization of IT, and of WLAN specifically. There is no >> fix, >> there is no answer, so you need a strategy that combines: >> >> ·Education- frequent and non-threatening messages of why these >> devices are >> problematic >> >> ·Get partners- IT staff/Deans, etc beyond the WLAN admins have to >> buy in >> and help with the message >> >> ·Enforcement- when you can without obsessing about it >> >> ·Tolerance- some you just have to let slide, either politically or >> because >> it’s just not worth the battle >> >> And you have to be able to apply these in varying weights depending >> on the >> situation. Nothing with wireless is simple any more. >> >> One man’s O-pinion. >> >> Regards- >> >> Lee Badman >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Anthony, >> Mark G >> *Sent:* Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:00 AM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> We too have seen this issue in our conference center and other >> functions >> that go on around campus. As for policing them, we have in the past >> tried >> to shut them down and had good luck in doing so. Once everyone in the >> room >> turned off their Myfi’s they started working again on the campus >> wireless >> network. The down fall is that once you cleared the room and all is >> good a >> new group of people lets out and more Myfi’s show up. It’s fighting a >> losing battle is you ask me. Best we can do is get the person or >> person’s >> running the event and educate them about the possible situations >> before >> the event takes place. With that said, I’m also curious how others >> handle >> this issue during their large venues. ‘ >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mark G. Anthony >> >> Network Administrator >> >> Information Technology Services >> >> The Florida State University >> >> Email manth...@fsu.edu <mailto:manth...@fsu.edu> >> >> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv >> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *John >> Kaftan >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 8, 2014 10:34 PM >> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU >> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> >> *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] Myfi >> >> >> I got my hands on someone's Verizon Myfi today and it was set to Auto >> choose what channel to broadcast its SSID on. The crazy thing chose >> channel 2! It was putting out a pretty strong signal too. I was >> seeing a >> -50 dB from 10 feet away. >> >> To anyone else connected to channel 1 or 6 a signal on channel 2 is >> going >> to be noise, i.e. interference. >> >> When doing scans I have seen this before. I have seen these things on >> every channel but 1,6,11 now that I think about it. >> >> I logged into its web interface and was able to force it to use >> channel >> 1. There is also an easy to use interface right on the device where I >> could chose the channel. >> >> I'm just alarmed that these things choose non-standandard channels. >> If >> 3-4 or more of these things show up in room hosting a conference we >> may >> have a real problem. Its hard enough to put 120 laptops in a room >> and get >> them all on and happy let alone having these things out there. >> >> I'm curious, does anybody police these devices at high density events >> or >> make an announcement requesting folks turn them off? I can't imagine >> these >> Myfis perform well in high density situations due to their competing >> for >> bandwidth on both 2.4 and cellular bands. >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> >> John Kaftan >> >> IT Infrastructure Manager >> >> Utica College >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Scott Allen >> Director, Network Services >> Georgetown University >> sc...@georgetown.edu <mailto:sc...@georgetown.edu> >> mobile - 202-309-5739 <tel:202-309-5739> >> >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this >> EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> John Kaftan >> >> IT Infrastructure Manager >> >> Utica College >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >> http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> > ********** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luke Jenkins Network Engineer Weber State University ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
