And that is the second thing that guys do wrong. They use simple bridged clients which are vulnerable to the issue of the backwards router and they create a host of other issues.
You are building a network that connects to the Internet so why not use the same network design that the Internet uses? Routed. Sure you will find sections that are bridged but anything that leaves the backbone is routed to the customer. Bridged or rather no design is fine for small simple networks. Just plug things in and get on to the next job. As you grow the troubles will begin and then, eventually, you will have to reorganize your entire network and move to a routed design. Why wait for all that pain? Do it right, from the start. Allow yourself to grow and not have to go through that second painful redesign. I am usually silent and just watch the lists, but when I see wrong advice given I cannot watch in silence. It is wrong to not use DHCP and it is wrong to use a bridged design. If you have intentions of doing any sort of large customer base, please plan it correctly from the start. Do not listen to the guys who tell you to do it quick and dirty. I know this sounds preachy, but man, I get 10 calls a day from people who have stated out quick and dirty and they reach a certain size or get certain types of traffic, and their network just collapses. The fix is to go to routed and when they realize how much work it is to convert it, they all wish they had followed my consistent advice. For more than 5 years I have said the same thing on the various lists. I even got kicked off the Judd list for not backing down and agreeing that hacked together bridges were the way to go. Regards, Lonnie On 12/6/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah, until some lunkhead plugs his dsl router in backward. As they do all > the time around here.... > > No thanks, no more DHCP troubles for me. Been there done that. Twice. > Never again. > > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services > 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to Authenticate/Protect > (WasEthernetbasedauthentication) > > > The same way you do it if you didn't run DHCP. Use PPPoE, HotSpot, > static DHCP based on MAC, ACL for association at the AP, any number of > ways. > > DHCP has little to do with authentication, although it can be a part > of the process. What DHCP does is automate the user TCP settings so > that if you renumber your system in order to move to routing it is > painless to assign new numbers. If you have to change DNS servers > then that is also easy. Just change the DHCP config and within an > hour everybody is using the new DNS. > > Don't run a network without it. It is priceless. > > Lonnie > > > On 12/6/05, Ron Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Lonnie, > > So Lonnie, if I run DHCP, on my customers IP's, how do I authenticate > > the users. I'm a real rookie at this. > > Ron Wallace > > ---- Original message ---- > > >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:52:08 -0800 > > >From: Lonnie Nunweiler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to Authenticate/Protect (WasEthernet > > basedauthentication) > > >To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> > > > > > >If you take Marlon's advice and do not run DHCP then you get to have > > >that personal contact with each and every subscriber if you ever have > > >to change network settings. With DHCP running it is real simple and > > >quick to edit the DHCP config and wait for the DHCP client renewal . > > > > > >My advice is completely the opposite. Use DHCP for all of your > > >customers. You will be happy you did and will mutter things when you > > >encounter someone who is not on DHCP. > > > > > >The personal contact is nice but what if you have several hundred > > >customers? That is just a little too nice for my tastes. > > > > > >Lonnie > > > > > >On 12/6/05, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > >> Don't run DHCP! And use mac filtering at the ap's. (I use the > > smartbridges > > >> ap's. they'll do radius and authenticate wireless subs just like my > > dialup > > >> ones.) > > >> > > >> Marlon > > >> (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > > >> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services > > >> 42846865 (icq) And I run my own > > wisp! > > >> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > > >> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > > >> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > >> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 9:39 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to Authenticate/Protect (WasEthernet > > >> basedauthentication) > > >> > > >> > > >> > Marlon, > > >> > > > >> > I appreciate the advice. Mostly I am interested in bullet proof > > >> > authentication of my clients. Any suggestions? > > >> > > > >> > Jason > > >> > > > >> > Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Hiya Jason, > > >> >> > > >> >> You are mixing your networks.... You won't normally run a > > homebrew > > >> >> product to provide a top notch service. > > >> >> > > >> >> If security is of THAT great an importance to you, you should NOT > > run > > >> >> wifi anything. Put in something much more off the wall. It's a > > lot > > >> >> harder to snoop if you don't use one of the world's most common > > >> >> protocols. > > >> >> > > >> >> For these business guys I'd run Trango or something like that. > > Good > > >> >> stuff but not nearly as much of it in use and no free tools on the > > >> >> internet for intercepting and cracking the data stream. > > >> >> > > >> >> What we do is remind our customers that this is the internet. > > They are > > >> >> hanging out there for thousands upon thousands of people who's > > only > > >> >> purpose in life is breaking into their machines and seeing what > > they can > > >> >> learn. If they have data that's that sensitive then they need a > > high end > > >> >> internal firewall and they need to VPN all internet traffic. > > >> >> > > >> >> That help? > > >> >> Marlon > > >> >> (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > > >> >> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services > > >> >> 42846865 (icq) And I run my > > own wisp! > > >> >> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > > >> >> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > > >> >> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > >> >> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 3:20 PM > > >> >> Subject: [WISPA] How to Authenticate/Protect (Was Ethernet > > >> >> basedauthentication) > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >>> List, > > >> >>> > > >> >>> I am on the precipice, ready to take the plunge and become a > > WISP > > >> >>> (After 1 year of zoning, permits, 16 hr days, etc), but one > > thing still > > >> >>> bothers me. I haven't decided how to authenticate clients to my > > network > > >> >>> and REALLY protect their data. The CPE's I will use, > > rootenna/Senao2611 > > >> >>> combos, do only WEP, which only obfuscates data nowadays. MAC > > addresses > > >> >>> can be cloned. Proxy login via a browser is obnoxious for the > > end user. > > >> >>> Ditto PPPoE & VPN logins. There is just no elegant, KISS > > solution. I > > >> >>> was looking at PPPoE or PPTP (poptop/linux) with Radius as my > > system, > > >> >>> since this would accomplish it, but seems like so much trouble > > and > > >> >>> overhead. PPTP is not Mac friendly, PPPoE requires clients > > (gasp) or a > > >> >>> router (gack!) and the PPPoE server shipping with Linux is > > meant "for > > >> >>> testing purposes only - man". I want an Always On (apparently) > > system > > >> >>> for my clients that just works. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> How do you other (small) WISPs do this? > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Tangent: How do you Senao 2611 users keep Netbios & windows > > network > > >> >>> neighborhood data off the wireless network. I was told to add a > > SOHO > > >> >>> router to the mix, but don't want to invest in more equipment to > > >> >>> maintain. > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Jason Wallace > > >> >>> -- > > >> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > >> >>> > > >> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > >> >>> > > >> >> > > >> > -- > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > >> > > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > >> > > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > >> > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > >> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > >> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > >> > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Lonnie Nunweiler > > >Valemount Networks Corporation > > >http://www.star-os.com/ > > >-- > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > Ron Wallace > > Hahnron, Inc. > > 220 S. Jackson St. > > Addison, MI 49220 > > > > Phone: (517) 547-8410 > > Mobile: (517) 605-4542 > > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > -- > Lonnie Nunweiler > Valemount Networks Corporation > http://www.star-os.com/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
