Hi,
There are several other factors to consider here.... insurance on the
vehicle itself is to cover if you damage someone else's property
(vehicle) by getting into an accident on the road. You may also have
full-coverage insurance to pay to fix the bucket truck itself.
However, the other issue is general liability insurance... if you have
someone in the bucket and they go thru someone's roof because they
aren't paying attention, wouldn't that be covered by your general
liability policy, rather than the auto insurance policy?
Travis
Microserv
P.S. In almost 10 years in the wireless business, and well over
1,000,000 miles logged on over 20 wireless vehicles during that time
(including several bucket trucks), we have never had an insurance
claim... yet my rates continue to go up every year... :(
Tom DeReggi wrote:
When you put it that way....... It does bring a new perpective to
think about. Well said.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance for use of bucket truck or lift for
installs.
Tom, I do share some of same views that You have. I just thought it
would be a good idea to present the pros and cons of "omitting"
information. There are 2 types of insurance customers it seems?. The
first one is like Yourself. You buy the insurance because You have
to, and the thought of using it doesn't really cross Your mind for
all the reasons You mentioned below. If it were possible, I am sure
that insurance CO's would love to find a way to discern the quality
customers from the irresponsible ones, and charge lower rates based
on this fact, and the fact that the bucket is only used once a
month?. That sad part is there is no real way to do this, as
insurance is based on the law of large #'s, and in order for it to
work, everyone must be lumped together in one big "pool"(for lack of
other words?). Your customer profile is fairly common though. I
respect the fact that when the truck is in the field, only
responsible operators like Yourself will be operating the bucket,
being extra cautious as to whats going on around You and whats
happening when the boom is moving etc. This is the way it should be
at all times. Now lets move on to the second type of customer(The
most uncommon, believe it or not?). This person usually does
everything they can to cut corners, not only with work ethics and
install qualities but also with their level of responsibilties in the
day to day operation of their business. This customer will hire the
cheapest employee that will work for them, skimp on safety and
vehicle maintainence, owe $$ to most of the vendors he or she does
business with and they will usually try and call their employees
"Sub-contractors", trying to avoid paying taxes and workmans
compensation to make more $$(This is really an entirely different
topic, but I am just using this as an example?). This risk taking
carries over to things such as the safe use of a bucket truck. If You
remember, I mentioned that the people that work for this person are
really only there because they can not find a job anywhere else, and
our business owner in question hires them because it is cheap labor.
The day comes when the bucket truck is needed for an install, and our
employee gets behind the wheel to do the job(Keep in mind that our
employee was up half the night boozing with his/her friends, and just
found it their spouse is messing with the neighbor). When at the job
site, this employee will not have very good safety principles, and
will do something really dumb like tear the service head for the
electric off the wall of the house and tear down the cable CO's fiber
line, along with the local Telco's phone systems. The reason I am
mentioning all this is because for the most part, 10% of all
insurance customers file 90% of the claims for reasons mentioned
above. This same customer will also use their insurance policy as a
maintainence contract, and try to get the insurance CO to pay for
things that You or I would simply say, "OK, this happened, but I will
just fix it myself, as it was my fault in the first place". I
dropped a 4ft piece of pipe off of the roof last year and it hit the
only car parked on the entire street. It was an older car that
already had 4000 dents and peeling paint, but the damage to the
fender was $430. I just paid it, because it was stupidity in the
first place, and I didn't want my rates to go up?. Now, the other
side of this: We have an incidence where an individual needed new
tires for inspection, so using their really smart brain, they drove
it home from the mechanic that failed it, and slashed all the tires
themselves. The insurance CO only paid the prorated amount, as the
tires were worn out in the first place, so this enterprising
individual got pissed, and went and got a set of tires(That didn't
match) from the local junk yard that had been slashed in a previous
crime, had them mounted on the rims for the van, and then tried to
claim a 2nd time that his tires had been vandalized again. I guess
You all figured out that this moron is now in jail for insurance
fraud?(For every one that is caught, 10 get away with it)
The reason I am mentioning all of this is that I am trying to show
all of You why and how Your insurance rates have been steadily rising
over the last few years. The bad thing is that even though I am an
agent, I still pay the same rates that everyone else pays. I also do
not have a bucket truck, as I find them useless for over 99% of all
the installs I do(I am sure there are some of us who would be lost
without one?), and I can not justify the costs for a device that will
sit around most of the time. Keep in mind that no matter who operates
that bucket truck, and how careful they are, it only takes a split
second for something bad to happen, and if that claim is not insured
(Or the CO denys it) and it is a large loss, The person without the
needed coverage will be the one getting screwed. It really could mean
the difference between You and Your family having a place to live, or
the local sheriff having a yard sale. If and when it does happen, it
is too late to say "Man!, I really wish I had told them about the
bucket?"
I am not trying to start a major debate, I am just trying to explain
why all of this is a PITA, and why getting insurance is becoming way
harder than it should be?
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Tim,
I agree, there is risk of not getting covered, if full disclosure is
not given. That is something that the WISP should consider in
advance. (But doesn't mean it won't be covered, as they'd need to
prove that having the bucket was something both parties typical
would think relevant to disclose. The insurance company wrote the
contract and it would be their responsibility to bring up the things
that should or should not be disclosed. I'd not suggest a WISP lie,
if there was a question or text referencing wether there was or
wasn't a bucket, as that would guarantee not getting covered.) But
I think it is also relavent, what a WISPs intent is for use of the
truck and bucket. Someone that wants a bucket truck, but only plans
to use it once a month for the "tough" job, should not have to pay
the same high rate, as say a Lineman that may use the bucket all day
/ every day around high voltage lines. Very few insurance companies
have provisions for that, as they do not have a way to control what
the usage will actually end up being. This means a WISP then needs
to make cost versus risk assesments, on what they want to do. I'd
also argue, that it would be rare for me to ever justify making an
insurance claim, based on the risk of loosing the insurance or no
longer being able to afford it, after making the claime. (except
for extreme cases like someone falling and breaking their neck). If
the owner or a supervisor are the only ones that will be using the
bucket, more care can be taken and less risk taken, than if the
intent is for the truck to be used by all/any installers frequently.
Some people buy insurance for compliance to do business, not
necessarilly for the coverage itself. Just like every other type of
insurance (health, life, business, etc), one must waiver wether they
really need insurance, or can afford to pay to releive the risk or not.
Quite honestly, I'd rather take a chance of not getting covered in a
bucket, and minimize the risk of someone getting injured because
they have the bucket, than have the installer taking risks on a
dangerous ladder all day long. I'm not downplaying the risk
involved for a bucket truck, I'm jsut saying that Ladders are
dangerous to, expecially for single man crew. I know about more
personal injury suits in the trades, via falling off ladders, than
any other cause.
Its not that I don't believe in insurance, or in doing it
legitimately. Its just that if a WISP is not careful, there
insurance policy costs can put them out of business, just having an
uninsured injury. For example, many "amusement" companies go out of
business because they can't afford the insurance and can't jsutify
takingthe risk without it. I'd hate to see the same thing destroy
wireless companies.
I prefer to handle the issue from the other side... Inforce strong
safety policies and safety awareness education. The safety training
is much less expensive than the insurance and paying claims. Not
that that negates the need for insurance, but it will keep the rates
down, if WISPs as an industry don't put themselves in the position
to be claim happy.
For the record, I personally do not have a bucket truck yet.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
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