Yeah, the waters in the routed vs. bridged argument are getting more and
more muddied all of the time.
How many wasted ip's are there in a routed network? Lots.
What are the benefits of a routed network? More control and better customer
isolation.
With the new ap's that block client to client isolation, with vlan switches,
bandwidth controlling cpe (or other solutions) and features like what
Patrick is talking about routing is becoming less and less critical every
day.
Shoot, know how they do the fiber to the home out here? We're talking 100
meg fiber to the home too, not some wimpy 1 meg solution. They vlan
customers into a single port to the isp. Basically frame a fancy switch,
almost frame relay. No routing used at all. We don't even have a good
option for routing at the customer other than doing it just because. It's
certainly not a requirement.
With so much extra capacity on the network, good switches, proper billing
models etc. we don't need to route anything but the boarder connection
anymore. Maybe if you are a HUGE isp but certainly not for a few hundreds
subs. Hundreds of subs it's still a maybe. And with thousands I'll bet a
creative operator could get away without routing just fine. It gets easier
every day too.
I know the routing purists here will be all over this one :-). But if you
think about what I'm saying without the religious fanaticism usually applied
to the argument it rings more and more true all of the time.
The technology included in the VL line makes it easier to build a network
that can be run by less technical staff. There is a cost savings there too.
laters,
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
You missed the thread though Blair. Our CPEs are as low as $245 complete
and only $285 for very low volume (25 a quarter). We have AUs now also
for about $2500 MSRP (list price). And we can filter and control packets
without a router, including broadcast packet rate limiting.
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blair Davis
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:06 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Why provide routers? To improve the isolation of the user from the
network. To filter and control packets at the customer end before they
clog up my wireless bandwidth. We run private IP space on our wireless
network for the same reasons.
We provide anti-virus and anti-spyware software for the same reasons.
I'd love to be able to put up $500 cpe's and $5000 AP's But in my area,
that would price me out of the market.
We Patrick Leary wrote:
Why do you have to have the router? The DSL and cable guys don't
provide
routers (not without extra fees). I provide my own in my home. At work
we have our own router.
VL also can do VLAN, all the way to QinQ 802.3ad VLANs. It does 802.1q.
It does layer 2 802.1p. Layer 3 prioritization with IP TOS (RFC791) and
DSCP (RFC2474). And layer 4 with UDP/TCP port range. And we can deliver
real VoIP QoS with a MOS of 4.0 and better using our proprietary WLP
(wireless link prioritization) protocol. (And that's not marketing
goop,
it's been tested by a tier 1 operator and it blew them away.)
Plus, in the end the thing that I admit really gets me is that some of
these products simply are not legal at all and are illegally shipped in
from overseas. If we just blatantly flauted the laws we could save tons
in R&D and legal too. It has always been disappointing that some WISPs
simply don't care about that. Especially when at the same time the same
WISP might complain that another WISP is over driving a system.
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
On Fri, 1 Dec 2006, Patrick Leary wrote:
reduced truck roll,
Where are you getting this?
I have been in the ISP business longer than MOST people on this
list. I have nothing bad to say about Alvarion equipment, but the
fact is, that to use Alvarion gear in any network I would build, you
would HAVE to add an addition cost for a router. SO, we would add
another $25ish to the cost of your CPE. At this point, the price is
exactly the same (or very close).
NOW, let's talk about upsell capability. With the Alvarion solution
(including a router), I could upgrade the speed, but that costs how
much? I could offer a firewall, vpn, qos or other options, but I'd
have to change the cost of the router from a $25 router to (at
least) a $100 router. If I am able to hit one customer in an area,
but the others have obscured LOS, I would have to build another AP
somewhere, where with MT, I could just add an $80 (including
antenna) upgrade to their router and offer service off that new AP.
I can offer real options for firewall, vpn, qos from their ethernet
port all the way to my network edge. Did I miss anything? Perhaps
there are other options that Alvarion has that I missed.
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