I"m not on that list.
sorry,
marlon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks.
Patrick
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>I found this thread interesting.
>
>Enjoy,
>marlon
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51
>PM
>Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
>
>
>So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about
>Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them
>from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some
>use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough.
>
>
>
>Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c:
>760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Are modifications to the APs FCC legal?
>
> No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used.
> Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God
> forbid!)
>
> How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA
> show the channel width to be?
>
> Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will
> adjust automatically.
>
> What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without
> reflector, with?
>
> The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL
> to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5
> miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your
> Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure
> produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector
> is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a
> reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10
> miles.
>
> Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist
> in the network development of Canopy products?
>
> There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of
> opportunity for direct consultation.
>
> Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing?
>
> In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include
> QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box
> (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.)
>
> Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that
> allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can
> you mix breeds of SM on the AP?
>
> VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees,
> but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates
> (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower
> rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish.
> All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector.
>
> Can an SM access the AP it's on for management?
>
> In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access.
>
> Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic?
>
> Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per
> subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its
> limit.
>
> Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the
> radio's ability to co-locate?
>
> The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be either
> H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of antenna
> choice).
>
> Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)?
>
> N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with the
> optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable at
> 4 or less ms.
>
>
> What is the maximum PPS per AP?
>
> Up to about 60000 downstream and 48000 upstream.
>
> Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user
> launching a DoS attack?
>
> Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically
> because of this threat.
>
> How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist
> this?
>
> Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288
> CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than
> 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and many
> tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run tons
> of concurrent data. The graphs show this too.
> What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can handle?
>
> VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize VoIP
> over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just dedicating
> a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same time,
> VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of low
> priority traffic.
>
> Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP?
>
> We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our
> implementation.
>
> Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the AP?
>
> Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles.
>
> What improvements over the current APs does Motorola hope to achieve in
> the next generation?
>
> VL was launched in 2002. Then it only netted about 12mbps. It now nets
> 32mbps. Many features have been added, such as 4th gen CIR/MIR, broadcast
> rate limiting, VoIP from 40 calls per sector to 288, pps from about 3,000
> to what I noted above, etc., etc. This has always been done with backward
> compatibility. (I can't yet name specific new features as v4.0 and rev E
> are both already new.)
>
> Since Canopy's inception has there been an upgrade to the AP that was
> not backwards compatible with existing SMs?
>
> Never. VL has always supported backward compatibility.
>
> Is a Lite SM the same hardware as a regular SM?
>
> We have no such animal. We have real VL CPE (rev E 3mbps version) for
> only $285/ea (all inclusive) under the AlvarionCOMNET program (that's with
> a 25/CPE per quarter commitment).
>
> Can lite SMs be purchased individually?
>
> All CPE can be bought individually or in packs.
>
> What is the benefit to using a SM other than the lite?
>
> N/A
>
> Can a non-advantage AP be software upgraded to Advantage?
>
> N/A. But we do offer a limited association AU (designed for rural
> markets). It can be upgraded to a full AU.
>
>
> What is the voltage pin out on Canopy equipment for PoE, is positive on
> pins 7 and 8 or 4 and 5?
> I'm not an engineer (or sales VP either actually), but I believe it is
> 54vDC. Off hand I'm not sure which pin, but I can found out if you really
> want to know.
>
>
> What voltage range can the Canopy accept? (Min, Max)
>
> VL can be powered with -48vDC or AC (the IDU side - indoor unit - ranges
> from 85-265 vAC with 50-60 Hz).
>
> How does GPS sync work?
>
> VL does not need sync in our view. Our channels do not bleed near the
> extent of certain other brands (as per a large such user tells me). We
> also have very high capacity so we do not need the kind of re-use some
> require on the same tower and planning between cells is fairly straight
> forward. We also use higher end antennas (MTI) on both ends and with some
> FCC-legal 3rd party antenna options on the AU side. We also use dynamic
> ATPC so our radios do not talk beyond their connections.
>
> What benefits does the CMM offer over the syncpipe? Is the satellite
> management necessary?
>
> N/A
>
> What level of tolerance is acceptable with GPS sync? Can the GPS sync
> cable length add delay?
>
> N/A
>
> How many GPS units are required for a network? Can the GPS data be sent
> via the wireless to other towers?
>
> N/A
>
> If my network is GPS synced, and my competitor's network is GPS synced,
> are they in harmony or do we have to coordinate our efforts on GPS sync
> specific settings to reduce interference?
> N/A
>
>
> How do the APs handle interference? What methods to they use?
> VLs are hugely configurable, but some of the key things are use of
> smaller channels, tighter antennas (10 degrees on the CPE). OFDM's
> adaptively sliding modulations, adjustments to various parameters, etc.
>
>
> Is there a RF receive threshold that can be set? How fine is the
> adjustment of this setting? Does it exist on both the AP and SM or just
> one?
>
> 20 - 4,032 byes (both ends) with a default of 60 for SUs and 4032 for
> AUs.
> What is the process of changing a channel on the AP? How do the SMs
> know the new channel to change to?
>
> Simple, a few keystokes. SU's change automatically.
>
> Are there broadcast commands that can be sent to all SMs on an
> particular AP? Or all SMs on the network?
>
> Yes and yes.
>
> Does the Canopy support ARQ?
>
> Yes, VL does ARQ.
>
> Explain what Transmit Frame Spreading is, what are the pros and cons?
> N/A
>
>
> Explain the 1x and 2x options, what are the pros and cons?
> N/A
>
>
> Where are the SMs authentication information (MAC, etc.) stored at? AP
> level? If an AP fails, what is involved with replacing that AP and
> restoring the SMs? Are there any backup utilities to assist?
>
> MAC table. If an AU fails and the "best AU" setting is enabled the CPEs
> will automatically re-associate to the next best AU. All CPE and AUs have
> a shadow flash and different firmware can be stored on each flash, this is
> invaluable if for some reason an upgrade fails in process. We are the only
> ones with shadow flash (that I know of). AUs can also be deployed stand
> alone or as part of a chassis system with blades. In the chassis
> configuration supports redundant power and you can swap IDUs should an IDU
> fail.
>
>
> Explain how canopy (not db) RSSI value is calculated?
>
> We do not do RSSI, we do SNR and it is hardcoded, but the 10 SNR LEDs on
> the CPE directly correspond to a specific SNR number.
>
> What exactly is the definition of Jitter? Explain how jitter is
> calculated?
>
> Jitter is just not something that we have to deal with in VL except with
> respect to VoIP and other real time sensitive apps. Our VoIP jitter using
> WLP is under 3ms. A good definition though can be found via this link:
> http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci213534,00.html.
> Discussion of jitter is not in the manual and I have never heard it
> discussed among VL users in any forums. I believe it is a non-issue on the
> data side.
>
>
> Explain how the test link function works, why is it disruptive to the
> entire AP?
>
> N/A
>
> What must be changed from default values on an SM to begin the survey
> process?
>
> N/A. Nothing, on AU or SU end. Once the survey is over the system will
> revert to its previous configuration.
>
> What is the suggested method of validating a new installation - what
> parameters should be measured?
> Again, I am not an engineer, but you'd certainly want to validate the
> quality of the link relative to the pre-installed expectation, so you
> really just need to pass traffic via your preferred test method (chariot,
> etc.). If the quality is not as expected, then you delve into looking at
> the myriad of counters. Of course, if you are tagging for VLANs you need
> to validate, as you would anytime you affect any specific setting. Beyond
> that, I'd defer to my engineers.
>
> How often is firmware updated? What is the method of upgrading
> firmware?
>
> Periodically when we can come up some major new thing or per market
> request. In addition, if needed we provide timely bug fixes to issues
> found by customers after we can repeat and fix. All upgrades are just a
> few key strokes and can be down network wide, sector wide or specific set
> of SUs, all with a few keystrokes. Of course, as mentioned before we have
> shadow flash.
>
> How long is the product's warranty, when does that warranty begin, how
> is this proven?
>
> One year, usually from the date it ships from our warehouse, but in
> recognition of the channel reality, we also have a grace period
> (flexible).
> How is the RMA process handled? What is the return time? Whom do I RMA
> to?
>
> RMAs are processed directly. One VAR is able to process his own I think.
> It is initiated by online opening of a trouble ticket. It is generally a
> two-stage process (unless we know the user is highly advanced, where the
> 1st stage is bypassed). Once the ticket is placed we call back and talk
> through the issue. We have found in most cases the unit is fine, but the
> operator had limited knowledge. Should it be determined a return is
> required, we process it using a credit card number to hold as we ship the
> new unit before we receive the old unit. Since replacements come from
> stock, exact time span depends on inventory actually, but most products
> are commonly kept in inventory.
> If the Prizm is management software necessary for several functions, why
> is there a charge for it?
>
> Our BreezeCONFIG comes with the units and (I'm told) does the things that
> some brands force payment for, as does other advanced tools. By the way
> AES is also standard and is hardware embedded so there is no major
> performance sacrifice to implement it.
>
>
> If the Prizm software crashes, do SMs lose their license for the
> duration of the outage?
>
> N/A
>
> Can the Prizm software only allocate licenses on certain APs with
> licenses?
>
> N/A
>
> Why are floating licenses sold instead of just unlocking the unit's full
> capabilities?
>
> N/A
>
> What is real-world throughput on a lite 2mb/s floating license? Is that
> aggregate? Can that burst higher?
>
> In our CPE, a 3mbps CPE will (all number here in ftp net) do 3mbps
> down/2mbps up, a 6mbps CPE will do 6mbps down/4 up and the 54 is wide open
> to 32mbps should the link budget allow it.
>
> What is the BAM?
>
> Our "bandwidth allocation module" is not a separate thing. Our MIR and
> CIR is in the firmware and does not coast extra, it is also dynamic and
> intelligent.
>
> When is the WiMax equipment schedule to be delivered?
>
> Which band? We have been shipping some bands since 2004. Maravedis (and
> no, we don't pay them to say it) says in terms of real WiMAX deployments
> we have 65% market share. On Feb 14 Motorola said it had 4 WiMAX signed
> contracts and 23 trials. We have 140 commercial deployments and over 200
> other trials as of the end of 2006. The delivery time for UL WiMAX is
> still not firm, due to complex issues (UL WiMAX may get hosed by other UL
> until the mechanism being developed in the IEEE 802.16h task group can be
> ratified and implemented. We chair this TG. Also, the UL WiMAX profile
> that was developed by the WiMAX Forum is ONLY for 5.725-5.850 GHz, not 5.3
> or 5.4. That's a problem. Also the profile is only 802.16d and not 802.16e
> and that's a bigger problem since the entire weight of the WiMAX ecosystem
> is being crafted around 16e. So there are things to sort out. I can
> explain further. We are charter members of the WiMAX Forum and we are
> number two in executive rank there (under Intel).
>
> Will the current SMs be compatible with the new WiMax stuff? How will
> this be possible?
>
> When it finally happens, they will not be able to connect to the same
> sectors. Don't believe anyone that says they will.unless they remind you
> it also means a truck roll, which is something all can say. I'm from
> Missouri on this one and we know WiMAX best (not a boast, just a fact of
> the market).
>
> Can Advantage APs be software/hardware upgraded to the future WiMax?
>
> No.
>
> What are the main 5.7GHz types of SMs?
> 5700, 5750, 5760
>
> 3 meg/1 MAC, 6meg/full bridge. 54meg/full bridge - all with integrated
> antennas (currently 21dBi MTI panel). We also have an "E" model with an
> N-type connector for support of an external antenna; these are all 54meg
> full bridges. The hardware rev E version, beginning to ship now (and yes,
> they live with the others) has a slightly wider antenna (20dBi I think)
> and support H or V pol mounting.
>
>
> Can a 5700 SM be software upgraded to a 5750 SM?
>
> N/A
>
> Do you have any Canopy end-users I can contact telephonically to discuss
> the advantages of Canopy over Trango?
>
> Any day. If you want I can make e-mail intros, and I'm talking about
> users who have done both or might even be large Canopy users now.
>
> What other third party products can you tell me about?
>
> VL does not need things like Stingers (very nicely done though by Chuck's
> people at Beehive) or the Cyclone by the Last Mile guys (nice too). The VL
> already does the things natively (i.e. the line did not have "holes" that
> 3rd parties had to fill).
>
> Does Canopy support OFDM?
>
> VL is the market's first UL PMP OFDM product, originally launched in
> 2002. It remains the most deployed in the world among UL OFDM products.
>
> Is there a way to force the SM to stay at a certain power level?
>
> We use ATPC (Moto does enable forced TPC). ATPC an also be disabled on
> ours (though you rarely would).
>
> Does the SM and AP's handle PPPoE traffic?
>
> We can enable or disable. From the manual: The PPPoE Broadcast Override
> Filter option enables or disables the broadcasting of PPPoE (Point to
> Point Protocol over Ethernet) messages. Even if according to the selected
> option in the Filter Options parameter, broadcast messages should be
> filtered, PPPoE broadcasts are transmitted if this parameter is set to
> Enable. We have the following options: Disable - PPPoE Broadcast messages
> are filtered or transmitted according to the general filtering criteria in
> the Filter Options parameter. OR: Enable - PPPoE Broadcast messages are
> transmitted regardless of the selected value of the Filter Options
> parameter.
>
> Do the SM and AP allow for firmware to be downgraded if necessary?
>
> Yes.
>
> Does Canopy have any plans to implement MPLS?
>
> Not yet. We do pass jumbo frame sizes (for some reason I think this is
> important with MPLS?)
>
> How can we monitor the SNR (Live readout of noise level)?
>
> By physically looking at the LEDs or via telnet or SNMP.
>
> Are there any utility's or built in tools that the AP or SM have for
> troubleshooting?
>
> BreezeCONFIG has exhaustive trouble shooting means. New users from other
> brands are usually blown away (again, you can talk to some)
>
>
> Do the SM and AP have a log that we can see information about interfaces
> and traffic?
>
> There's a question I do not know the answer to, but I can find out.
> Obviously not like a packet shaper though.
>
>
> Is the throughput at the SM level effected by the RSSI value?
>
> This is true of all wireless products - it is not a brand question and
> the answer is "Yes."
>
> Is the throughput at the SM level effected by distance?
>
> Same as above.
>
>
> Yea, that's it for now! (:
>
> Whew, that took a while. But it was a good exercise for me
> anyway. I'm happy to say I could answer most without looking at the
> manual. Not bad for a non-tech.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
>************************************************************************************
>This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
>PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
>viruses(190).
>************************************************************************************
>
>
>
>************************************************************************************
>This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp
>Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
>viruses(42).
>************************************************************************************
>
>
>
>************************************************************************************
>This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp
>Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
>viruses(84).
>************************************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>************************************************************************************
>This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
>PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer
>viruses.
>************************************************************************************
>
>
>
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
