Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz multi-path

Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:03:17 -0800

Tom,

Your rainzone affects potential signal loss during a heavy storm... so it takes a bigger dish or more power to compensate for that... just the same as my mountaintop towers that get up to 2 feet of ice build-up on them... we have to plan for 10db of "extra" signal loss during 3-4 months of the year.

I guess I'm not sure why all the questions about multi-path, etc.? I've _never_ heard of someone not being able to get an 18ghz link working. It's licensed, so there are no noise issues. It's a tight beamwidth, and if engineered and installed correctly (not on anything that will move or flex), it will work.

Is there a particular install you are considering?

Travis
Microserv

Tom DeReggi wrote: 
Good info, to build confidence, but, your area is dry climate. 
Its a different animal here in our East coast D2 rain zone.

Anyone with D2 zone or worse, Feedback? 

  
We have not seen any multi-path issues with any 18ghz links.
    

Are you mounted on tenant buildings, towers, or hills?
Multipath would only likely be a concern for tenant building roof mount.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 18Ghz multi-path


  Hi,

  We currently have five 18ghz links... two have been up for almost 4 years with less than 30 minutes downtime total.

  1 - 7 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.9999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 years)
  2 - 19 miles, 4ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 years)
  3 - 14 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8 months)
  4 - 15 miles, 2.5ft dishes, 99.999% calc'd uptime, so far correct (8 months)
  5 - 28 miles, 2ft dishes, 99.99% calc'd uptime, so far correct (4 months)

  We have not seen any multi-path issues with any 18ghz links. We are always able to get 1-2db better signal than the path calc shows, but it can take a little time (the 27 mile link took almost an hour to fully align, compared with 10-15 minutes for the other links).

  We are in the 12mm/h rain zone.

  Travis
  Microserv

  Tom DeReggi wrote: 
So what are you guy finding regarding 18Ghz multi-path.
What we learned over this past year is that multipath for Millimeter Wave 
and high Spectrum ranges, is a different animal.
Very picky.  18Ghz specifically is known for negative effects of reflection, 
that need to be taken into account in isntalltion design.

Any success rates on wall mounting? Are your links path calc'd for 2ft dish 
working with 2 ft, as engineered? Etc.
Are you getting 3- 9s engineering 3- 9's?

This question isn;t about gear, its about 18Ghz.

(Note if mention distance, please mention rain zone)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chuck McCown - 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


  I wish we could say the same about the Trango.  So far nothing but flaky
behavior and that is with -44 dBm rx signal levels.
But this is a new product to us and there may be something we are not
configuring properly.  Not going to count it out until the factory guys 
have
had a chance to exhaust their remedies.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


    The Trango is solid as a rock, also.
Trango is a great product, for a basic config, meaning 1 link, w/ 1
antenna
and radio per side, under 300mbps.
I was nothing but impressed with our units.

Dragonwave currently has the lead from the perspective of supporting all
the
freq ranges in a single paltform, best adaptive modulation routines, and
ability to combine radios on a single antenna to double capacity.  But
there
is a price to that.  If those feature aren't needed?

Cable Free is also a great product, if you are planning on daisy chaining
several links, the flexibilty and cost savings of these units are
fantastic.
Also very impressed with the overall design of their system. (Only
negative
I found was no adaptive modulation)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


      Matt

I have installed over 50 Dragonwave links in the past 24  months.  1
outage the result of equipment failure and I had a replacement in my 
hand
the next day from Canada.

Airpair goes up to 200 Meg. FD. Horizon will do 600 plus. Multiple IDU.
ODU architecture. You could do 200 MB Horizon for your budget.

I have no experience with the trango.

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:47:10
To:"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


I have used the Trango GigaLink and DragonWave.  DragonWave is rock
solid.
Never a problem.  Have several systems.
We are still trying to get the Trango to play.  Lots of signal but not
running well at all.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Looking for short licensed link


        Matt,

I would take a look at the Trango GigaLink 18ghz product. It will do
105Mbps full-duplex (200Mbps total) for your price range and you can do
a software upgrade to 300Mbps full-duplex (600Mbps total) for about
$5,000 extra (at a later date, when you need the speed). It's an 
IDU/ODU
setup and you use LMR-400 between them.

You could lease the 600Mbps version on a 36 month, $1 buyout for less
than you are paying for your fiber. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
          Hi all,

I am looking for a licensed link to replace a fiber connection.   I am
currently paying for a 100meg fiber connection between two of my 
towers
and would like to replace it with my own infrastructure.  I own the
towers on both sides, there is plenty of LOS and the link distance is
2.9 miles.  The connection currently peaks out at about 30 meg, but 
I'm
planning to put remote backup servers on the far side, so I'd like to
be
able to maintain 100meg speeds.

I am interested in finding out what kind of radios people are using 
for
this type of link.  The fiber connection costs me $500/month, and I'd
like to be able to pay for the link within 2.5 years, so that puts a
$12-15K  price range on it.    Vendors, feel free to contact me
off-list
about this one.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



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