I agree with Mike as far as the physics limitations. Video cards for PCs are the same thing. They pushed the technology of PCI, AGP, PCI-Express before the video cards even came close to reaching the bus' capacity.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:50 PM, Sam Tetherow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I couldn't imagine how the logistics of this would work. What makes > sense is if your customer uses more bandwidth, then they pay for it. > Everything else is just an inefficient way to do the same. > > Lets say you are going to charge $150/Mb/month for 95% usage (just > picked a number). If the customer pays the bill for their usage 100% > comes to you. Now lets say that we have come up with some efficient > scheme to accurately bill the various content providers for their > 'usage'. If we need $150/Mb/month and bill at that rate to say Netflix, > do you think that Netflix is going to have $0 overhead on accounts > payable for that bill? Do you think they are going to take a loss on > that expense? So it is going to cost the end customer $150/Mb/month+$x. > > This cost will be averaged out to each customer based on total usage. > As the service becomes more popular then the price is going to go up. > Wait, doesn't this sound familiar? The problem with selling a commodity > is that supply and demand laws do apply. The more the demand the less > the supply. We don't get economy of scale savings in last mile on > wireless gear. We have a very finite amount of bandwidth we can > effectively deliver from an AP/tower. > > Marlon is the one ahead of the curve on this one (and all the others > that have been billing based on usage already). This is most likely > where we are going to end up. I don't necessarily think it will be down > to $x/GB transfer it will at least be tiered service similar to cell > phone plans today. > > Where WISPs run into the issue is in the short term. We have to survive > the market until the billing model changes. Eventually Cable and Telco > (and even Fiber at some point) is going to have to switch from unlimited > to some form of metered (Comcast and Time Warner are already testing > this model). They just have the advantage of having better last mile > bandwidth than we do and they generally get better upstream pricing. > > Sam Tetherow > Sandhills Wireless > > > > > > Scottie Arnett wrote: > > I read about a model somewhere that might work. The content providers > paid the ISP a percentage for delivery of the content. Now I might could > live with that if the economics worked out. > > > > Scottie > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > > From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> > > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:11:04 -0600 > > > > > >> I think we will eventually see people just leave constant streams open > day > >> and night. How many of you leave your TV on much of the time whether you > are > >> watching it or not? This throws off the over-subscription model which > >> relates to how many people are using the service at one time. When we > start > >> seeing all channels available at all times via Internet with some common > >> interface (Netflix, Tivo, Windows Media Player, Real Player, Quicktime, > >> etc.) then we will have this problem to contend with as well. > >> > >> I hope content providers start making all of their content interactive > such > >> that viewers have to click something (like ads) from time to time to > >> maintain the free TV service. This would help them to sell their ads at > a > >> premium and would provide an automatic "off" button for the stream when > >> people walk away from the "TV" and do not click something once in a > while to > >> prove they are watching the content and commercials. > >> Scriv > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Chuck McCown - 3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I think the canopy 450 will do something like 30 down and 10 up. So > that > >>> could give you 20 simultaneously which statistically could work if you > had > >>> 50-100 on an AP. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Travis Johnson > >>> To: WISPA General List > >>> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 7:30 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] NetFlix Streaming Bandwidth Information > >>> > >>> > >>> You have hit the problem directly on the head. You think a simple > Canopy > >>> AP is going to solve the problem? Let's say you are allocating 10Mbps > >>> downlink on this AP... that would mean 5 customers per AP (@ 2Mbps > each). > >>> Nobody in this market can survive on those ratios. > >>> > >>> This service needs capped and people that want it can pay for "video > >>> streaming" which is $100/month extra... that would be my vote. > >>> > >>> Travis > >>> Microserv > >>> > >>> Drew Lentz wrote: > >>> In areas like yours, though, some would argue that is the perfect place > for > >>> some type of licensed LTE/WiMAX type of service. Even with a Canopy > type > >>> service it would beat down the doors of the telco offering only 3Mbps > of > >>> service. As more and more devices have bandwidth requirements, the > service > >>> providers will fall into line, I believe. > >>> > >>> Everyone has always pushed for more bandwidth, but it as always come > from > >>> the customers as opposed to the devices. It seems like now, the device > >>> requirements will leave the customer with no choice and force them into > a > >>> decision of higher consumption. > >>> > >>> As far as furthering the digital divide, I don't think it will hurt it > all > >>> that bad. On the contrary what would be nice to see is the > communications > >>> mediums becoming less expensive because of the amount of services > required. > >>> Just like the price of bandwidth has changed over the years, I think it > >>> will > >>> continue to drop. I would love to see some research data on the cost > per MB > >>> over the last 10 years and see what the trend is like. > >>> > >>> That combined with less expensive and functional equipment (UBNT's > Bullet, > >>> the introduction of Mikrotik years ago, for examples) gives operators > the > >>> ability to put more bandwidth than before in users hands at a fraction > of > >>> the cost. > >>> > >>> I think more than anything it will come down to a backhaul battle. > Fiber to > >>> the node, fiber to the AP, high capacity microwave links (Bridgewave, > >>> Dragonwave, Ceragon, etc) These are all going to be critically > important to > >>> aggregate and transport these huge amounts of data. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 11/24/08 1:06 AM, "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> It will further the digital divide. Rural remote locations will be > again > >>> left > >>> in the boon docks. Where I live, 3 meg DSL is the fastest available > >>> connection > >>> at $75/mth. Cheapest T1 here is over $600/mth, and fiber? forget it, > can't > >>> get > >>> it unless you want to build about 4 towers just to backhaul, or pay > >>> $1200/mth > >>> for each cell tower to put them on. > >>> > >>> Why should the small ISP's foot the bill for Netflix and these > companies > >>> that > >>> are making million's of dollars more than we are? > >>> > >>> Scottie > >>> > >>> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > >>> From: Drew Lentz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> > >>> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:41:41 -0600 > >>> > >>> I'm all for open systems. Limiting the amount of bandwidth at any > level > >>> is, > >>> to me, a terrible thing to do. I understand that it doesn't necessarily > fit > >>> the model as it applies to today's business for many ISPs, but, maybe > its > >>> time to change the model. > >>> > >>> This is where the separation of providers starts to take shape. The > >>> networks > >>> that can handle these loads and supply the end-user are going to win > the > >>> customers. I honestly think the demand of large scale bandwidth is > going to > >>> be fed to the end-user by the consumer electronics market. Look at CES > last > >>> year. Look how many devices demand connectivity at certain levels. If > your > >>> current service provider can't get you what you need, there will always > be > >>> someone else who can. > >>> > >>> There is some great info here from a recent conference: > >>> http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/citi/events/summit2008 > >>> > >>> Take a look at the slides. I like the reference to the slide where it > >>> breaks > >>> down how much bandwidth utilization there is expected to be per > household: > >>> 35+ Mbps (and those are numbers from 2006!) > >>> 4 VoIP lines @ 100Kbps > >>> 2 SDTVs @ 2Mbps > >>> 2 HDTVs @ 9 Mbps > >>> 1 Gaming device @ 1Mbps > >>> 1 High Spedd Internet @ 10Mbps > >>> > >>> Scary how quickly it adds up :) > >>> > >>> My favorite quote: > >>> ³By the year 2010 bandwidth for 20 homes will generate more traffic > than > >>> entire Internet in 1995² > >>> > >>> -d > >>> > >>> > >>> On 11/24/08 12:24 AM, "Butch Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Travis Johnson wrote: > >>> > >>> It will be interesting to see how this plays out... the amount > of > >>> bandwidth required to sustain this type of service is not cost > >>> effective. My upstream costs alone are over $50/Mbps. So if someone > >>> wants to run a constant 2Mbps stream, my raw cost is $100 per month > >>> (not including backhaul, support, AP costs, etc.). > >>> > >>> Wait until people realize that this type of service isn't going to > >>> be "free" as they think now.... when they get a $150/month internet > >>> bill, the $40 for DishTV will look pretty good. ;) > >>> Even the cable companies are feeling the burn here: > >>> http://tinyurl.com/3oufk8 > >>> > >>> Or a better story: > >>> http://news.cnet.com/2100-1034_3-5079624.html > >>> > >>> I am glad to see these types of reports coming out. The cable ops > >>> and telcos have been rapidly trying to commoditize Internet access > >>> services and now they are realizing how stupid that was. In my > >>> opinion, high profile companies that are setting these limits are > >>> going to help the smaller guys (that's us) "get away" with what, in > >>> many cases, we were already doing. BW caps are something that will > >>> HAVE to happen in one form or another. > >>> > >>> <RANT> > >>> Where are all the net neutrality people now? Why aren't you all > >>> arguing that something like this is not relevant? Isn't this > >>> something that you have all asked for? I mean, if I sell someone a > >>> 2 meg connection, shouldn't they (and everyone else on the system) > >>> be able to run at 2 meg for the whole month? What difference does > >>> it make if I am buying a wireless connection, DSL or cable > >>> connection? In a net neutral environment, should it matter that I > >>> am streaming this type of content? > >>> </RANT> > >>> > >>> I feel better. ;-) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> --- > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> > >>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> --- > >>> > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> --- > >>> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >>> > >>> > >>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as > >>> $30.00/mth. > >>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> -- > >>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> --- > >> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as > $30.00/mth. > > Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! 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