I'd hazard a guess you should be okay... Only way to tell is to do the RF Study and find out :-)
Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com >-----Original Message----- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Gino Villarini >Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:15 PM >To: WISPA General List >Cc: WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link > >Charles, Thanks for the prompt response , I was thinking more on >availability. > >Say I'm on a crowded area, what would be the chances of not getting >the license? > >Sent from my Motorola Startac... > > >On Feb 12, 2009, at 2:24 PM, "Charles Wu" <c...@cticonnect.com> wrote: > >> Unfortunately, it's the same as getting a new license...the only >> difference comes in application fees >> >> If it's a BRAND NEW tower with nothing -- you pay the FCC $640 / >> site for a new application >> If it's a MODIFICATION to an existing tower with a license -- you >> pay the FCC $240 / site for a major modification >> >> -Charles >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of Gino Villarini >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:42 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >> >> On this subject >> >> Charles, others: >> >> Whats the process of making a change to an existing license? Let >> say I >> wish to move to one tower 1/4 mile away? >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On >> Behalf Of jp >> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:39 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >> >> We are facing two simultaneous issues at some of our sites. I'm sure >> we're not the only ones with such dilemas. >> 1. We've run out of 5.8ghz spectrum. This can be addressed by changing >> to 5.4ghz or 3.65ghz for some of the shorter backhauls. >> 2. The normal 5ghz upto-45mbps stuff isn't fast enough for some of our >> links in the near future. Faster 5ghz stuff uses more spectrum; see >> dilema 1. >> >> On the low end, to conserve 5.8 spectrum, we've taken out some BA-II >> 2.4ghz stuff to clean up our spectrum and done 2.4ghz G links on 10mhz >> to low end longer distance links such as MT crossroads horizontally >> polarized. >> >> On the middle of the scale, we've upgraded some b14/b28 gear to >> Trangolink45 to get more speed out of existing links and spectrum. >> >> On the high end, there are some shorter distance 5.8ghz links we could >> replace with 5.4, but that sort of investment would only accomplish >> one >> of the goals, which is to preserve 5.8 spectrum. That investment would >> not increase our speed at all. If I'm going to replace those links >> with >> an upgrade, it should be substantially faster, and a 24ghz unlicensed >> link could accomplish that in many cases. >> >> I'm in a rural area, so I'm not really worried about interference of >> 24ghz (or any frequency used strictly for ptp). We do have other wisps >> using 5.8,2.4,900, and cell and phone companies doing 5.8 backhauls to >> contend with. Most of the interference is from ptmp gear of my own and >> others, and some from colocated backhaul gear of the other mentioned >> sources. 24ghz should be really easy to avoid interference if used >> strictly for ptp links. >> >> For one of our busy sites right now, we have two 5ghz links to it in >> order to have good speed, as one wasn't enough (and the redundancy >> was a >> good byproduct). I would love a few cost effective <2 mile links that >> don't need licensing, doesn't use 5ghz and can do 200mbps actual >> data or >> faster. If 24ghz can do that, we'd take it. >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 01:21:11PM -0800, John Seaman wrote: >>> Thanks Tom, we're not convinced about 24 GHz... the power limits are >>> very low. We are looking at it but we're trying to size up the 24 >>> GHz >> >>> market before we make the commitment to pursue this frequency. I do >>> know that in Canada there is good demnand for 24 GHz (since licensing >>> fees are extremely high) .. but here is the US, the licensing costs >>> are so low that most users prefer to go with licensed band.. at least >>> that has been our perception of the market so far. I would like to >>> hear others view points on 24 GHz. >>> >>> John >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:13 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>> >>>> The only reason we don't attach >>>> it here in the factory is to enable the user the option to use a >>>> waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the event they want >> >>>> to connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used >> >>>> with any dish with a waveguide flange. >>> >>> Good feature for those who want to upgrade pre-existing installed >>> slower >>> DS-3 type radios with new state of the art IP, using already >>> installed >> >>> dish. >>> >>> As someone who has now used both the Trango and Dragonwave >>> products, I >> >>> can honestly say they are both very fine products, and a buyer >>> couldn't possibly go wrong with either purchase decission. But, we >>> have reached a point where a buyer does not HAVE TO accept a >>> significant technical compromise anymore >>> to gain a "better price". I will not get into a debate of which >>> product is >>> "better", as there are very tiny differences that might be more or >>> less preferable dependant on the buyer's application or personal >> preference. >>> But I will say, Dragonwave will lose sales, if they try to keep their >>> price higher, and at minimum are at a stage requiring price matching. >>> There was a time that "Dragonwave" was considered the "premium" >>> product, but today there are many buyers that would argue the >>> opposite >> >>> that Trango is now becomming the more "premium" product. I'll leave >>> that decission to the prospective buyer. >>> >>> What I'd like to see from Dragonwave, is for them to give their >>> distributors better prices consistently by default, so they can be >>> more competitive. I think their quality resellers deserve that >>> assistance, and the markup they add to generate sales. >>> >>> What I'd like to see from Trango, is for them to embrace 24Ghz, and >>> add it to their collection. There is a Huge market for this, to >>> empower WISPs to close deals and isntall links without delay. >>> (even if they were converted to 23Ghz licensed down the road). >>> >>> What would be really cool, is a 23Ghz unit that was wideband and >>> supported 23Ghz through 24Ghz, where software implemented the >>> neccessary power reductions at 24Ghz unlicensed to keep it legal, >>> when >> >>> the channel was selected. I do not know if that is technically >>> acheivable or not, without compromise. >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John Seaman" <j...@trangosys.com> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>> >>> >>>> Just to clear up a few points... Daniel's claim of number of >>>> Trango's units shipped is WAY off. He has no way of knowing what we >> >>>> have shipped. Trango is a private company and as such we dont >>>> divulge specifics, but I can tell you that the actual shipments are >>>> FAR >>> greater >>>> and a very significant portion of the links shipped have gone >>>> outside the US and as such you wont see them show up in the FCC >>>> database. Our overall numbers of links shipped may be small compared >> >>>> to Ceragon and the big guys but the product has gained widespread >>>> acceptance, >>> traction >>>> and is quickly gaining momentum. Why else would our competitors be >>>> acting so nervous? Trango has firmly established itself with >>>> TrangoLINK-GIGA and APEX in the WISP market. Now we are also >>>> gaining excellent traction with counties, states, cities, utilities, >> >>>> as well >>> as >>>> the US Military... These entities traditionally deploylargest >>> quantities >>>> of wireless backhaul sytems, compared to mobile operators who deploy >>> by >>>> far the most. (although most mobile operator deployments are still >>>> strictly TDM). There is no stopping Trango. We will continue to >>>> peck away at Dragonwave's marketshare and gradually we'll be taking >>>> larger and larger portions of it. Dragonwave did not ship $50mil >>>> last year, >>> it >>>> was closer to $40Mil - and by the way they are losing tons of money >>>> quarter-after-quarter. Trango is, and has always been profitable. >>>> >>>> I actually don't have a side-by side comparison of the two products >>>> handy. We really should put one together. Truth is there are many >>>> similarities and also some key differences. For those who may not >>>> be aware, Trango offers two primary product lines: TrangoLINK-GIGA >>>> and TrangoLINK-APEX. GIGA is our split architecture system which >>>> offers 4 GigE Ports (Dragonwave 1), 8 T1 ports (Dragonwave zero). >>>> The APEX is the all outdoor POE product which offers a GigE port as >>>> well as a plug-in slot for a fiber SFP module. I have never been >>>> able to >>> determine >>>> how the Dragonwave optical option works...but I dont think it is >>>> anything as simple as APEX (Daniel feel free to provide details). >>> Both >>>> of the traffic ports (optical and GigE copper) on the APEX can be >>>> used simultaneously. GIGA and APEX both offer port priority and QoS >> >>>> functionality as well as rapid port shutdown. The multiple port >>> option >>>> allows users to completely segregate traffic from one port to the >>> next. >>>> Dragonwave does not have this feature. The APEX offers TRUE >>> "Hitless" >>>> ACM which is Adaptive Coding Modulation which means the system will >>> move >>>> to slower modulations without taking any hits. I don't believe that >> >>>> Horizon Compact offers hitless ACM. Daniel, feel free to correct me >>> if >>>> I am wrong. Regarding the GIGA, one other point which comes up >> often >>>> is that the Dragonwave split solution (Airpair) allows only for very >> >>>> short (300 ft?) IF cable runs. TrangoLINK-GIGA allows for 1000 ft >>>> of cable. >>>> >>>> As for Daniel's other points: >>>> -Products available now: TrangoLINK-GIGA 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz. APEX 18, >>> 11 >>>> GHz. 23 Ghz coming next month. >>>> -Power Consumption: TrangoLINK-APEX power consumption is lower than >>>> Horizon Compact High power version although higher than Horizon >>> standard >>>> power version, which stands to reason. >>>> -Field Proven: Latest releases of GIGA and APEX firmware highly >>> stable. >>>> TrangoLINK-GIGA has been in the field for 18 months now. >>>> -CLI/GUI: You can do a full link setup using only the GUI interface >>> on >>>> GIGA and APEX although admitedly the CLI has more functionality. >>>> Our firware engineers will enhance this in future releases. The CLI >> >>>> is >>> very >>>> much like a Cisco interface and most users are very comfortable in >>>> the CLI. >>>> -LED Allignment - the allignment tool has received rave reviews from >> >>>> most installers. One thing I'd like to mention is that our newer >>>> ODUs coming out, and all APEX models have built-in power detector in >> >>>> the >>> ODU >>>> to make the RSSI readouts more responsive than in the earlier ODUs. >>> So >>>> the LED indicator that Daniel used on his nine-link deployment has >>>> improved greatly in that it is highly responsive. Daniel if you get >>>> a chance to do another allignment I am sure you will love the LED >>>> allignment tool on the newer radios. >>>> - APEX output power 3-8 dB better than Horizon compact standard >> model. >>>> Horizon HP version 2.5 dB better than APEX at higher modulations >>> (better >>>> at lower modulation). >>>> - Trango 18 Ghz covers 17.7 GHz - 18.14 & 19.265 - 19.7 GHz. This >>>> is 440 MHz of spectrum.. I dont know the DW spec on this, but I do >>>> know that I've never heard of a license being declined because >>>> there's not enough channels availble in the radio. >>>> - Daniel is the only one I've heard of complaining about the >>>> waveguide transition between he ODU and the antenna. It requires >>>> four little screws to put it in. Not a big deal. The only reason >>>> we don't attach it here in the factory is to enable the user the >>>> option to use a waveguide adapter (instead of the transition) in the >> >>>> event they want >>> to >>>> connect the ODU to piece of flex waveguide so that it can be used >>>> with any dish with a waveguide flange. >>>> - Contact us or CTI for pricing off-list. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> John Seaman >>>> Trango Systems, Inc. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:36 AM >>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>> >>>> Brad, >>>> >>>> Go back through the list achieves... I think I have made my stance >>>> on why Dragonwave is better in my opinion than Trango. I've >>>> installed >>> nine >>>> Trango Giga links... so my opinion is based on my own personal >>>> experience... not just the Dragonwave marketing material. I didn't >>>> repost these comments because many got tired of the whole >>>> Dragonwave/Trango battle on the list. I sent this to someone >>>> earlier though... I could come up with more reasons if you wish... >>>> or just go back through the achieves. >>>> >>>> - Volume of product sold - Dragonwave sold $50 million dollars worth >>> of >>>> equipment last year... by all reports Trango sold only 100 links or >>> so. >>>> It is not unreasonable to think that Trango may not last in the >>> market, >>>> especially with them ditching their point to multi-point product. >>>> >>>> - Dragonwave 6GHz, 11GHz, 18GHz, 23GHz, 24GHz, and 38GHz is all >>>> available now. >>>> >>>> - Lower power consumption >>>> >>>> - Field Proven - Firmware releases are stable... Trango has only >>>> been >>> in >>>> the field for about a year now, and firmware by many accounts is >>>> still buggy. >>>> >>>> - CLI/GUI - Trango GUI is not useable, all commands must come from >>>> the CLI. >>>> Often these commands are confusing to use. Dragonwave can be >>> configured >>>> either way easily. >>>> >>>> - LED Alignment/Voltmeter Alignment - LED Alignment on Trango gear >>>> is not as accurate as voltmeter on Dragonwave... can make aligning >>>> difficult links that much harder (since you only have two digits vs. >>>> four). From my own personal experience on this one. >>>> >>>> - Better link margins when using the High Power product >>>> >>>> - Trango 18GHz equipment does not cover the full band... I can dig >>>> up the e-mail I sent to the list about this. >>>> >>>> - Dragonwave does not have a waveguide adapter between the dish and >>> the >>>> ODU... this caused a few problems on the massive Trango deployment I >>> did >>>> (9 >>>> links) >>>> >>>> The price difference is in the sub-$1k range. I don't quote pricing >>> on >>>> the list unless it is an advertised special. If you want a quote... >>> hit >>>> me offlist. >>>> >>>> Daniel White >>>> 3-dB Networks >>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of Brad Belton >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:06 PM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>> >>>>> Hello Daniel, >>>>> >>>>> Well, that is disappointing as I was hoping for more substance from >>> you >>>> >>>>> to back up your statements regarding "close" in price and >>>>> "performance much better". Instead you've chosen to throw a stone >>>>> at a competing product and run the other way. >>>>> >>>>> I guess we'll have to chalk up your comments as all show and no >> go... >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brad >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:49 PM >>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>> >>>>> I'm going to go with Jeff on this one... there has been multiple >>>>> threads on this topic... I think it has been beat to death. If you >>>>> want to talk about it offlist I'd be happy to. >>>>> >>>>> As far as the price difference... I'd be happy to quote the >>>>> Dragonwave and let you compare it to the published Trango deals... >>>>> but my >>> personal >>>> >>>>> opinion is that you are not paying a premium for the Dragonwave >>> name... >>>> >>>>> compared to what I would consider the benefits. >>>>> >>>>> Daniel White >>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Jeff Ehman >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>>> >>>>>> All, >>>>>> >>>>>> When comparing exactly apples to apples, there is about a 10-20% >>>>> premium >>>>>> for a Dragonwave product. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are plenty of threads on this topic. I would be happy to >>>>>> grab >>> a >>>> >>>>>> bunch for you so hit me off off-list. It really depends on your >>>>>> application for which product you would like to go with. I would >>>>>> be more than happy to walk you through everything. >>>>>> >>>>>> I try to refrain from stating opinions in a public forum. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Brad Belton >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 PM >>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Daniel, >>>>>> >>>>>> Can you elaborate in what way the Dragonwave "performance is much >>>>>> better"? >>>>>> Do you have a comparison chart you can share with us explaining >>>>>> how >> >>>>>> a Dragonwave stacks up against competing products. Namely Trango >>>>>> in this case. >>>>>> >>>>>> Exactly how close is "close" when you mention pricing between the >>>>>> two products? "Close" is a relative term don't you agree? So, >>>>>> are >> >>>>>> we talking $5, $50, $500, $5000? >>>>>> >>>>>> Look forward to your responses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:25 PM >>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>>> >>>>>> Well... >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd be happy to quote you a Dragonwave link... I think you will be >>>>>> surprised how close it comes to the Trango pricing... and I think >>>>>> the performance is much better (I don't want to rehash that whole >>> thread). >>>>>> >>>>>> We also will take care of all of the licensing work for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hit me offlist if you like. >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:08 AM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Need 18ghz link >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am looking for a good place to get an 18ghz link, where do you >>> guys >>>> >>>>>>> suggest. Ideally the company would also procure the licence for >> us. >>> I >>>> >>>>>>> am thinking I want the Trango APEX because of it cost / >> performance. >>>>>>> So if anybody has suggestions on a good company to use I am all >>> ears! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> _ >>>>>>> /-\ ndrew >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> -- >>> - >>>>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>>> - >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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