Does it matter..? On 5/26/09, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > Will you have to open your books to the government if you take the money? > -RickG > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Tom DeReggi <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net> > wrote: >> Scott, >> >> Here is the best advice I can give you. Rules are not published and nobody >> knows what will be the criteria for qualification or for actually winning >> the grants, and I'm not sure NTIA will really know either, even after they >> publish rules. I think the first allocation of funds will be somewhat a >> science project to see what type of applicants and applications are >> receieved. >> >> What you need to do is.... >> >> 1) identify the areas that you'd like to serve with grant money, if you >> got >> some. Don't overly plan, it will take to much time. Use some forward >> thinking :-) >> 2) Come up with a plan of how much additional cash you'd need beyond grant >> funds, to acheive the plan, if you won a grant for those areas. >> 3) Don't expect anyone to give you a magic formula before the NOFA and >> rules >> are released from NTIA/RUS, because it will be useless and inaccurate. >> 4) Don't expect anyone to give you a magic formula after teh NOFA and >> rules >> a released from NTIA/RUS, because by then there won't be anymore time >> left, >> and everyone will be scrambling to get their grants in with the SHORT >> deadline. >> >> The Legislative Committee is closely monitoring the progress regarding >> notices and comments released by NTIA/RUS as they are released. WISPA's >> Membership will be notified of this information and where to read details >> when it is released. >> >> In the meantime, you'll need to gamble, and bet on what you think will be >> the future rules. WISPs will be fighting against the grain so to speak, >> because our typical profile will not match the typical profile of the >> targeted awardee. But the good news is that NTIA/RUS are simplathetic to >> WISPs, and if they gave a grant to every pre-existing WISP, it really >> wouldn't be all that much money comparatively, to what is available. >> >> The biggest barrier is the reality that its most feasible for NTIA/RUS to >> award large grants, just because the sheer volume of it. However, I know >> for >> a fact, they are trying to come up with ways to include WISPs, within >> reality. Maybe we'll get lucky, and they'll allow smaller projects, that >> are well written, and justified. My advise is to do all the business case >> plannign a head of time, so you are rteady to hit the ground running, when >> the NOFA is released. Remember, they have not stated that there will be >> any >> reward for deploying cheaper. But it is a listed goal, to seek plans that >> incourage additional investments. Again, that is a barrier, for WISPs >> that >> have already invested all their personal resources and capitol, and to >> attrack additional investors that will bring in operating cash, without >> the >> WISP giving their business away. >> >> Just remember the largest reason small WISPs have not received grants is >> that they never applied. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scottie Arnett" <sarn...@info-ed.com> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:27 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? >> >> >> >>>Even here, I eventually expect >>>competition to enter my market. It would be nice to know the "secret >>>sauce" so I can be better prepared for that day. >> >> What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband >> stimulus >> package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my membership >> fees(after >> tax season) are sitting here... give me something to bite. Not being an >> A**, >> but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), but didn't get much out of it. >> >> I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on this. >> Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I jump on that >> opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust. >> >> Scottie >> >> ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >> From: RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 13:00:41 -0400 >> >>>I find the "secret sauce" of converting a customer a very interesting >>>subject as well. For the most part nearly every WISP I have run had a >>>monopoly. The ones that didnt had a niche of some kind. My first >>>owner/operator venture was not good because it was in a highly >>>competitive market and I could not overcome the "go with the big >>>company" mentality. My customers said I gave great service but even >>>they succumbed to price. Therefore, I sold that and went back to the >>>monopoly world (read boondocks). Even here, I eventually expect >>>competition to enter my market. It would be nice to know the "secret >>>sauce" so I can be better prepared for that day. >>> >>>-RickG >>> >>>On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Charles Wu <c...@cticonnect.com> wrote: >>>>>All I can say is if you are "holding back" on doing more installs >>>>> because >>>>>you can't afford it, you need to find some financing and get installing. >>>>>Once that customer is installed with something else (DSL, >Cable, >>>>>competitor), it's 10x harder to get them to switch to you. You have to >>>>>get the customers NOW. >>>> >>>> Now that's a more interesting discussion >>>> >>>> What's the business plan for customer acquisition? Do you still keep >>>> building out into unserved areas (e.g., "first to market")? >>>> >>>> At this point, I would guess that most areas have competition - so then >>>> is the business model based upon arbitraging attrition and moves? >>>> >>>> e.g., the average American moves every 7 years - so that means 12% of >>>> the >>>> population is available "yearly" as a "new customer" >>>> >>>> So, say you have 5,000 customers in a market of 100,000 >>>> >>>> You'll churn 1% / month (50) - but there's a market of "new adds" of >>>> 1,000 customers every month due to just organic moving activity...so >>>> assuming 20% market share, market equilibrium would be 20,000 >>>> subscribers >>>> >>>> Not necessarily a bad thing =) >>>> >>>> That said, I'd be curious to talk about "secret sauce" methods to >>>> convert >>>> customers from the competition >>>> >>>> -Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Scott, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regarding debt...I've found that there's a "scale inflection point" in >>>> running a WISP (or any business for the matter) that needs to be >>>> reached -- the main purpose for taking on debt (because due to interest, >>>> you end up paying more in the longer term instead of buying cash), is to >>>> accelerate growth so one can progress beyond this point >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> e.g., if you can organically fund 30 new installs a month with cash, if >>>> you take on debt, you could leverage yourself and now do 100 installs / >>>> month >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, from a business perspective -- in looking at the WISP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As a stand-alone sustainable business -- it costs a minimum of about >>>> $30k >>>> / month to operate a small WISP -- now, I'll argue that that $30k/month >>>> in operations remains relatively constant and whether it's supporting >>>> 300, 800 or 1500 customers -- however, at 300 customers, the business is >>>> bleeding cash...at 800 customers the business is just about at a >>>> break-even, and at 1500 customers, the business is a cash machine >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:20 PM >>>> >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >>>> Availability >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So I will take option 4 from a previous post since Travis made the >>>> point. >>>> >>>> "Up to 60 months with $1 buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan." >>>> >>>> I want to run debt free as soon a possible. That being the case I don't >>>> >>>> lease and have not leased to keep debt down. I do have a start-up loan >>>> >>>> that is being paid on a little slower than I would like, but we have >>>> >>>> paid off 1/2 of it in < 5 years and based on our payments, we are cash >>>> >>>> flow positive. >>>> >>>> Granted, my WISP is a lot smaller than many that post here and our >>>> >>>> growth rate is small, but some of that is managing growth to stay >>>> >>>> cash-flow positive. >>>> >>>> I have seen several companies die because they became cash rich, but >>>> >>>> still could not cover the debt. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Travis Johnson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The banks can sell a car with little effort. They already have >>>> >>>> relationships with dealers and auctions. And often, if the consumer's >>>> >>>> credit is questionable, the dealer will guarantee to take the car back >>>> >>>> if the loan defaults. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Who is going to buy a $10,000 radio that has been repo'd? Even for >>>> >>>> $5k, I wouldn't touch it. I'd buy a new radio with warranty, that I >>>> >>>> know is good and hasn't been fried or broken. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The banks will never loan on the equipment alone. There is no security >>>> >>>> there... but again, why do you need a bank loan for equipment when you >>>> >>>> can just lease it and get the same results? Up to 60 months with $1 >>>> >>>> buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan. What's the difference? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> >>>> Microserv >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe when talking about CPE. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> But what about when one is talking about a $10,000 Part101 radio? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Just like a car, all that the lender should need is to "hold the title" >>>> of >>>> >>>> the radio until paid off, and get a down payment of $2000 to cover the >>>> cost >>>> >>>> of tower climber/repo man, and a signed letter of authorization from >>>> lanlord >>>> >>>> stating the location of the tower gear is installed on and they >>>> acknowledge >>>> >>>> that the gear is not abandoned equipment. (So it does not automatically >>>> >>>> become property of landlord in 4 months, and teh landlord knows the >>>> >>>> equipment owner has first rights to the gear). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Think about it... Wouldn't repo costs be reduced when the repo man knows >>>> >>>> exactly where to find the radio? A car can easilly be relocated and >>>> >>>> hard-to-find, when the owner skips town. >>>> >>>> Plus the home likely has an owner with a shot gun or a big dog, which >>>> the >>>> >>>> tower/MTU likely does not. The MTU building might even have a security >>>> >>>> guard to escort teh lender safely to the roof :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "jp" <j...@saucer.midcoast.com><mailto:j...@saucer.midcoast.com> >>>> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:13 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >>>> Availability >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a worse case scenario, a car is probably considerably easier to repo >>>> >>>> than the antenna on my roof and radio in my attic. And the car would be >>>> >>>> worth a magnitude more money. The installed infrastructure is worthless >>>> >>>> if it costs a huge amount to get to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 07:27:09PM -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've never found a lender willing to lend against using the in-place >>>> used >>>> >>>> equipment as colladeral. >>>> >>>> It is the biggest double standard. >>>> >>>> I find it highly ironic that they'll use a car for colladeral that >>>> looses >>>> >>>> 50% of its value the day it leaves the lot, and has a rate of failure >>>> and >>>> >>>> risk of damage higher than just about any product on the market, and it >>>> >>>> has >>>> >>>> a huge cash burn (gas :-). but yet lendors won't put equivellent value >>>> on >>>> >>>> wireless gear, that holds its value, Ebay boasting easilly 50% after 3-4 >>>> >>>> years of use, even after fully depreciated. >>>> >>>> I'll never understand the lending market. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi >>>> >>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>> >>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: <rea...@muddyfrogwater.us><mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us> >>>> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:55 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >>>> >>>> Availability >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Answers in-line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> >>>> <insert witty tagline here> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Charles Wu" <c...@cticonnect.com><mailto:c...@cticonnect.com> >>>> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have been >>>> >>>> approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations that >>>> >>>> have >>>> >>>> a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now, >>>> >>>> specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a >>>> >>>> very >>>> >>>> popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over the >>>> >>>> past >>>> >>>> year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that we >>>> >>>> do - >>>> >>>> that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about >>>> >>>> financing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow >>>> >>>> organically >>>> >>>> generated from operations >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money, that's >>>> >>>> what >>>> >>>> we've done. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank / SBA >>>> >>>> / >>>> >>>> RUS loans)? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I could not qualify for any of them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3% >>>> >>>> financing >>>> >>>> deal) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Never sought any. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch >>>> >>>> (e.g., >>>> >>>> not deploying as aggressively) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit. In >>>> >>>> fact, the "credit crunch" start last Fall raised my "30+ day past due" >>>> >>>> amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just >>>> >>>> four >>>> >>>> months. That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping by >>>> >>>> until >>>> >>>> our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still >>>> >>>> several >>>> >>>> thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow. We have plenty of >>>> >>>> people >>>> >>>> waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 6. Have you gone to Agility...<cough> Louie the loanshark =) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility >>>> >>>> contacted, >>>> >>>> we >>>> >>>> have not done any business with them. In my estimation, they wanted >>>> >>>> control over our business and day to day decisions, which we concluded >>>> >>>> was >>>> >>>> both unwarranted and unwise. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> WISP equipment is not really a "commodity" in that there is almost no >>>> >>>> market >>>> >>>> for it outside of the "maker-vendor" relationship. Other than Ebay, >>>> >>>> and a >>>> >>>> couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no "market" >>>> >>>> which >>>> >>>> stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you can >>>> >>>> borrow against. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get >>>> >>>> capital >>>> >>>> and create stable working and short term credit relationships with >>>> >>>> their >>>> >>>> buyers, kind of like the used car market. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wants You! 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