This is when I miss Charles Wu on this list. We built a comprehensive spreadsheet together once showing real numbers. Of course that was a long time ago and the numbers are obsolete. Perhaps its time to resurrect it? As Marlon said, there is limited capacity. That statement applies to us in many ways. So, unless you understand the limitations you cant predict QOS to your customers or your financial stability. Think future! The issue here is exponential network usage growth which will continue into the future. AFAIK the only way to combat it is to prepare and that means understand how this affects your business from a technical and financial standpoint. I could be wrong, but considering all factors, I believe WISP's do not have the capabilty to meet the future demand with the "all you can eat" model (Travis excluded). So, something will have to be done. What, how, and when are the questions that need answering. Dont get me wrong, I have never been a "sky is falling" type of guy. I just like being proactive. -RickG
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: > You get what you pay for. > > On 11/8/09, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > > No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they > are > > great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of > shared > > bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to > proper > > ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense. > > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> > wrote: > > > >> Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long. > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you " guaranteed > >> > minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and > >> > 6Mbps" at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong > >> but > >> > the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers > >> > when > >> > their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can come > >> in. > >> > I > >> > find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if it > >> can > >> > be delivered. > >> > > >> > BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost > money > >> > since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an > >> > non-subsidized "all you can eat service" company in a competitive > market > >> > that actually makes money (bottom line). > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple years, > >> and > >> > > even tested it for a bit. > >> > > > >> > > Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess. I, myself, > >> > being > >> > > a > >> > > fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an > >> unlimited > >> > > plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan. I > >> have > >> > > unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc. If I could pay for > >> > > unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too! > >> > > > >> > > We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could > >> > activate > >> > > it at anytime. We tried selling it about a year ago, and people > just > >> > > didn't > >> > > understand the concept. People aren't used to it--most people got > >> online > >> > > when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and > >> > > don't > >> > > remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages. Nobody knows what ISDN > with > >> > 300 > >> > > hours is. > >> > > > >> > > We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo. This makes us the > >> > fastest > >> > > in the area, and the cheapest. We have local sales, support and > >> > > installations. We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we > >> > > offer > >> > > three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps, > 4Mbps > >> > and > >> > > 6Mbps. If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e. > >> "normal > >> > > use") you'll always see the 12Mbps. But once you fire up a torrent > or > >> > > Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you get > >> your > >> > > guaranteed minimum. Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again > >> going > >> > to > >> > > 6Mbps. We have never had a complaint about speed or price with this > >> > > structure. > >> > > > >> > > I'm hoping that the "big guys" do go to pay-per-use plans. Just one > >> more > >> > > way we can advertise and win against them. "Tired of counting your > >> bits > >> > > and > >> > > bytes? We're unlimited" Look at Cricket wireless--they've just > >> exploded > >> > > with customers on their unlimited-everything service. > >> > > > >> > > Just my 2 cents > >> > > > >> > > Jayson > >> > > > >> > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an > unlimited > >> > plan > >> > > > on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet > access > >> for > >> > > > $9.95/mo extra. > >> > > > > >> > > > People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to > be > >> > from > >> > > > month to month. Would you want that at your own home? > >> > > > > >> > > > Travis > >> > > > Microserv > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Gary Garrett wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > You sound like the cell phone company. > >> > > > I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by > >> the > >> > > > month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Travis Johnson wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius, > >> etc.) > >> > > > to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with > the > >> > > > phone calls from users that say "My computer wasn't even turned on > >> > > > during those times. Remove the charge or I will go elsewhere." > So, > >> > even > >> > > > that one extra phone call costs you money (because you have to > think > >> > > > about scaling). Imagine if you have 100x the number of customers > you > >> > > > have now... does the same solution work? Probably not. > >> > > > > >> > > > The easier solution would be to call that customer and get them to > >> > > > upgrade to the next plan up (which would provide higher speed as > >> well). > >> > > > This works very well for us... and then I have that guaranteed > extra > >> > > > income each month, even if they don't use it. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > >> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > > > > >> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > > > >> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! 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