Rick, I'm not nearly brave enough to claim this is going to handle all our future needs, but from what I've see so far its going to help a lot over the next 2-3 years.
We've been playing with both the Ubiquiti stuff and the MikroTik stuff for many months now and we're encouraged that there is a future here. We need 5.4 certification, and we need to alter our business model for the Urban stuff to create cells that are no more than a couple of miles radius. We need to identify service areas with enough customer density to justify fibre close to the tower, but isolated enough that 5.x, particularly 5.4, is not going to be overrun in the next few years. There is no doubt that N is more sensitive to interference, at least that is the indication we have from our trials. No such thing as a free lunch I suspect, just like usual. We already have decent Internet fibre prices that will allow a Gigabit-capable tower in a high density area. I understand that everyone has a different environment to compete in, but ours is perhaps unusual in that the Cablecos and Telcos are introducing some pretty draconian bandwidth caps in their post-modern effort to stay profitable without investing in fibre to the premises. This appears to give us an opportunity to circumvent the traditional last mile and take the fight directly to the enemy. Couldn't even have dreamed about this a year ago, but now its looking frighteningly reasonable as a strategy. We do need to figure out how to do QoS properly at high bandwidths, we've been a bit cavalier about that in the past. Once you get up to a realistic 10Mbit or more to the customer on any kind of large scale deployment I think the rules of the game change. Everything you're working with gets bigger, faster and a lot more expensive on the back office end although the front end tower-related costs stay around the levels we are used to. We're going to have to learn a lot about that in a hurry. George -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing George, I have not played with the N stuff. Mostly because I need to upgrade my towers. That is in the plans. Which is where this discussion s originating from. Anytime I spend money, I have to confirm it is worthwhile and will represent an ROI. Yes, bandwidth is coming down ever so slowly (here anyways). So, what your saying is that the new equipment + lower bandwidth costs will handle all of our future needs? On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:37 PM, George Morris <ghmor...@candlelight.ca>wrote: > Rick, there is a heck of a range of technology out there as you know. > Anything from the old Alvarion hoppers to the new stuff using N from > Ubiquiti and Mikrotik + dog. > > It isn't the same game anymore, provided you can get your Internet pipe(s) > at a reasonable price. > > Guaranteed bandwidth from a WISP is certainly do-able now, and the numbers > I've seen in this thread are on the low side. Have you played with the new > stuff that can actually deliver 100Mbits per AP? Its stunning. There are > still some rough edges in both the firmware and certification, but this is > the future. QoS is still an issue of course, the customer will eat whatever > we can give them and then some... > > George > > -----Original Message----- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:25 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing > > No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are > great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of shared > bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to proper > ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense. > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> > wrote: > > > Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long. > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you " guaranteed > > > minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and > > > 6Mbps" at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong > > but > > > the problem I see is that you will end up having unhappy subscribers > when > > > their expectations are not met. Thats where the premium rates can come > > in. > > > I > > > find people all the time who would pay more for committed speeds if it > > can > > > be delivered. > > > > > > BTW: Cricket Communications, subsidiary of Leap Wireless has lost money > > > since its inception and continues to do so. Give me an example of an > > > non-subsidized "all you can eat service" company in a competitive > market > > > that actually makes money (bottom line). > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Ya know, we've looked at this many times over the past couple years, > > and > > > > even tested it for a bit. > > > > > > > > Fact is, people like unlimited, and not having to guess. I, myself, > > > being > > > > a > > > > fairly lite user of the Internet, would still always opt for an > > unlimited > > > > plan--even if I knew my bill may be lower on a pay-per-use plan. I > > have > > > > unlimited cell phone minutes, txt messages, etc. If I could pay for > > > > unlimited utilites, I'd certainly do that too! > > > > > > > > We've got the infrastructure in place for a pay-per-use, and could > > > activate > > > > it at anytime. We tried selling it about a year ago, and people just > > > > didn't > > > > understand the concept. People aren't used to it--most people got > > online > > > > when Internet was $19.95/mo for dialup (or, $22.95 for AOL!), and > don't > > > > remember the 10 for $10 dial-up packages. Nobody knows what ISDN > with > > > 300 > > > > hours is. > > > > > > > > We currently offer 12Mbps service for $24.95/mo. This makes us the > > > fastest > > > > in the area, and the cheapest. We have local sales, support and > > > > installations. We decided the way to win is to shape traffic--we > offer > > > > three 12Mbps packages; one with a guaranteed minimum of 1.5Mbps, > 4Mbps > > > and > > > > 6Mbps. If you do nothing than browse, share pictures, etc. (i.e. > > "normal > > > > use") you'll always see the 12Mbps. But once you fire up a torrent > or > > > > Netflix, you only get that speed for 10 minutes--after that, you get > > your > > > > guaranteed minimum. Prices double from 1.5 to 4, and double again > > going > > > to > > > > 6Mbps. We have never had a complaint about speed or price with this > > > > structure. > > > > > > > > I'm hoping that the "big guys" do go to pay-per-use plans. Just one > > more > > > > way we can advertise and win against them. "Tired of counting your > > bits > > > > and > > > > bytes? We're unlimited" Look at Cricket wireless--they've just > > exploded > > > > with customers on their unlimited-everything service. > > > > > > > > Just my 2 cents > > > > > > > > Jayson > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The cellular guys don't charge by the minute... I have an > unlimited > > > plan > > > > > on my cell phone. I can also get unlimited text and internet access > > for > > > > > $9.95/mo extra. > > > > > > > > > > People don't want to guess what their internet bills are going to > be > > > from > > > > > month to month. Would you want that at your own home? > > > > > > > > > > Travis > > > > > Microserv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary Garrett wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You sound like the cell phone company. > > > > > I am convinced the big failure in my business model is I charge by > > the > > > > > month while the cellular guys charge by the minute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about having to add additional resources (radius, > > etc.) > > > > > to track it. Then you have to bill it. Then you get to deal with > the > > > > > phone calls from users that say "My computer wasn't even turned on > > > > > during those times. Remove the charge or I will go elsewhere." So, > > > even > > > > > that one extra phone call costs you money (because you have to > think > > > > > about scaling). Imagine if you have 100x the number of customers > you > > > > > have now... does the same solution work? Probably not. > > > > > > > > > > The easier solution would be to call that customer and get them to > > > > > upgrade to the next plan up (which would provide higher speed as > > well). > > > > > This works very well for us... and then I have that guaranteed > extra > > > > > income each month, even if they don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > > WISPA Wants You! 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