I thought the heavy duty EMP shielding the govt/mil does at protected sites uses copper.
Greg On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:38 AM, Scott Reed wrote: > Can you point me to a source to confirm this? Aluminum is a better > conductor than steel so I would think it does a better job. I would be > interested in reading about the physics behind this. > > MDK wrote: >> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. >> >> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >> >> >>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use >>> steel if not? >>> >>> I use these: >>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>> --- Albert Einstein >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >>> <o...@odessaoffice.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all >>>> radios >>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep >>>> them >>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mike" <m...@aweiowa.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >>>>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >>>>> >>>>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >>>>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >>>>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >>>>> >>>>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >>>>> create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >>>>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >>>>> >>>>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >>>>> issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >>>>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >>>>>> box, >>>>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >>>>>> their >>>>>> own >>>>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >>>>>> a >>>>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >>>>>> >>>> That's >>>> >>>>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >>>>>> a >>>>>> couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >>>>>> doing >>>>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Mike >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>>>>> spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>>>>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>>>>> another one listening. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to >>>>>>> >>>> push >>>> >>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >>>>>>> customer >>>>>>> >>>>>> base. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into >>>>>>> 2 >>>>>>> 180 >>>>>>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >>>>>>> customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you >>>>>>> >>>> just >>>> >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>>>>>> >>>>>> sector. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I >>>>>>> >>>> only >>>> >>>>>>> dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >>>>>>> remote >>>>>>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >>>>>>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of >>>>>>> course >>>>>>> until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >>>>>>> suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>> >>>> On >>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Jason Hensley >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >>>>>>> times, >>>>>>> we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> not happening very often right now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>> >>>> On >>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert West >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, >>>>>>> Jason? >>>>>>> >>>>>> Just >>>>>> >>>>>>> curious. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>> >>>> On >>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> horsepower on the AP's CPU? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual >>>>>>>> >>>> AP's, >>>> >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is >>>>>>>> >>>> AP >>>> >>>>>>>> overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've >>>>>>>> seen a >>>>>>>> performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs >>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> boards >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with single radios? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>> ] >>>> >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM >>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the >>>>>>>> >>>>>> strength >>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the >>>>>>>> Indiana >>>>>>>> farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> luck >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing >>>>>>>> clients >>>>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will >>>>>>>> justify >>>>>>>> >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> sectors, I would go that way though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our >>>>>>>> >>>>>> salesmen >>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go >>>>>>>> farther, >>>>>>>> >>>>>> we >>>>>> >>>>>>>> try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a >>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> density >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are >>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>> established in our area and have most of these sites already in >>>>>>>> >>>>>> operation. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site >>>>>>>> >>>> density. >>>> >>>>>>>> Rick Harnish >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>> >>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> 32 >>>>>>>>> subs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>> >>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What frequency band and polarization? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the >>>>>>>>> Omni >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> offload >>>>>>>>> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>> >>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 9db >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>> >>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What size omni are you using? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> antenna design said so :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy <mmce...@accubak.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't >>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, >>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>> comments? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > > -- > Scott Reed > Sr. Systems Engineer > GAB Midwest > 1-800-363-1544 x4000 > Cell: 260-273-7239 > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! 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