I second what Josh is saying. I build out a lot of hotels and large
offices, and because of iPhones and iPads, we've started doubling up on
the AP's we normally would deploy. In an indoor environment, it's
really tough to do a very directional antenna because you are usually
trying to cover a 360 deg area, so high power AP's, low gain antennas,
and more AP's is usually the best approach.
That being said, I'm curious about your specific choice of Broadcom
radios in your first post. Usually that means you are trying to utilize
custom firmware such as DD-WRT or Sputnik, etc. Is this the case? If
so, it would be interesting to hear what you are trying to accomplish.
I've played with many of those for a long time, until I really saw the
capability and power of the Unifi, and stopped messing around with
anything else.
Just curious as Broadcom is not a radio chipset you hear much about on
this list.
Thanks,
*Ryan McKenzie
Office 385-215-WIFI
Cell 801-309-6161
*
On 11/13/14 4:41 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
You are correct. It never will. Rx can only be improved by a bigger
antenna to listen with. Antenna gain always has and will be better
than raw power.
Unless you include the other side's Tx, in which case more power and
gain will help. In the Wifi world you're totally screwed because it's
a terrible laptop/phone/game console/tablet/etc in which case you
can't do ANYTHING to their devices.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com
<mailto:colton.co...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Awesome, I am already learning so much from this mailing list. So
it sound like the author was right. So boosting the power output
on the AP will more than likely boost the TX (downlink) speed on
the AP side, but do nothing on the RX speed side of the AP since
nothing from the clients sending perspective has changed right?
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Ben West <b...@gowasabi.net
<mailto:b...@gowasabi.net>> wrote:
Yes, radios will negotiate different rx/tx rates to each
other, so up to 2 distinct rates for a single link. On the
open source mac80211 linux-wireless driver you can see this
explicitly. The rx/tx on one radio is the tx/rx on the other.
root@ap1:~# iw wlan0 station dump
Station 52:e6:fc:XX:XX:XX (on wlan0)
inactive time: 70 ms
rx bytes: 769202553
rx packets: 4644034
tx bytes: 326581907
tx packets: 465139
tx retries: 76461
tx failed: 4
signal: -56 [-57, -62] dBm
signal avg: -55 [-57, -62] dBm
tx bitrate: 117.0 MBit/s MCS 14
rx bitrate: 86.7 MBit/s MCS 12 short GI
authorized: yes
authenticated: yes
preamble: long
WMM/WME: yes
MFP: no
TDLS peer: no
root@ap2:~# iw wlan0 station dump
Station 62:66:b3:XX:XX:XX (on wlan0)
inactive time: 10 ms
rx bytes: 569548806
rx packets: 3191667
tx bytes: 412571117
tx packets: 490879
tx retries: 104831
tx failed: 1
signal: -57 [-67, -57] dBm
signal avg: -55 [-62, -56] dBm
tx bitrate: 86.7 MBit/s MCS 12 short GI
rx bitrate: 117.0 MBit/s MCS 14
authorized: yes
authenticated: yes
preamble: long
WMM/WME: yes
MFP: no
TDLS peer: no
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Colton Conor
<colton.co...@gmail.com <mailto:colton.co...@gmail.com>> wrote:
In my situation, we are assuming we are dealing with a
location with one and only one AP (typical home) and most
devices are tablets and smartphones who's antenna's and
power output can't be modified. Can be either a 1 or 2
story home.
So, how much truth is in this article:
http://tomatousb.org/tut:increasing-wrt54g-transmit-power
The author is claiming that wifi negotiates speed
(correct) but in both directions in the uplink and
downlink side. He is basically claiming if you increase
the power output at the AP, then the downstream (from AP
to client) link rate will increase, while the uplink
(Client to AP) will stay the same. This make sense, but
does wifi really established a different PHY rate for up
and down stream. Is this correct?
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Jack Unger
<jun...@ask-wi.com <mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com>> wrote:
Going from 20 dB to 26 dB will allow the AP to be
heard (with the same reliability) at double the
distance away.
Yes. If the client power (actually the client EIRP
which includes the antenna gain) stays the same then
the "uplink" distance from client to AP will still be
the same.
Yes, increasing the number of APs is one possible
solution. Another is to use a higher-gain (more
directional) antenna on the AP recognizing that when
you increase the AP antenna gain in one direction, you
are reducing the gain (and the coverage) in all other
directions.
jack
On 11/13/2014 11:10 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
So going from a regular powered 100mw (20db) to a
high powered 400mw (26db) is a 6db increase in output
power. So you are saying going from regular to high
powered is a double in coverage size?
Doesn't increasing the power output at the AP only
increase how loud the AP can "shout" which in term
dictates how far the receiver can hear from? If the
client can't shout back does this do any good?
Most client devices today like iPads, Smartphones,
and some laptops can't be modified to increase their
antenna gain or power output. So the only option is
to increase the numbers of APs, or the transmit
power/antennas at the AP right?
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Jack Unger
<jun...@ask-wi.com <mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com>> wrote:
To double the communications distance (everything
else holding steady) requires an additional 6 dB.
Knowing this, you can do the math with the
various antenna gains and power levels to
determine performance.
Regards,
Jack Unger
WISPA FCC Technical Consultant
On 11/13/2014 10:15 AM, Colton Conor wrote:
We are comparing multiple SOHO routers and
modems that have the same Broadcom chipsets. All
of them have 802.11N 2x2 configuration. The only
differences between them are if they have
internal or external antennas and the gain of
the antennas (either 2, 3, or 5dbi ratings). In
addition, some sell a high powered wifi radio
(400mw) while others have the basic (100mw).
How much a difference does each of these
hardware features make in overall wifi performance?
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--
Support Honest Gil Fulbright for Senate
<http://honestgil.com/#up> <http://honestgil.com/#up>
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author (2003) - "Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area
Networks"
Serving the WISP Community since 1993
760-678-5033 <tel:760-678-5033> jun...@ask-wi.com
<mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com>
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--
Support Honest Gil Fulbright for Senate
<http://honestgil.com/#up> <http://honestgil.com/#up>
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author (2003) - "Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area
Networks"
Serving the WISP Community since 1993
760-678-5033 <tel:760-678-5033> jun...@ask-wi.com
<mailto:jun...@ask-wi.com>
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
--
Ben West
http://gowasabi.net
b...@gowasabi.net <mailto:b...@gowasabi.net>
314-246-9434 <tel:314-246-9434>
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org <mailto:Wireless@wispa.org>
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
_______________________________________________
Wireless mailing list
Wireless@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
